Johan stokes the Hot Stove

hi gang,

i was injured all last week, backpains! but i'm back now

a MELKY / CHIN for an ACE ??

hmmmmm,

why we lose out;

hole in CF, $$$ to replace

one great pitcher for a good pitcher (If it ain't broke, why the fixing)

one player for two

melky better than damon in CF

youth thing

wang only stable gun, no petitte,

overall:

wang,big3,moose = good

santana,big2,moose = good

donnie makes the HOF this year?

yes/no......

Ok, here's the deal I think makes sense:

Cabrera (Twins need a replacement for Hunter in CF).

Ian Kennedy (Could be OD ready)

Jeff Karstens (ML experience and showing something this fall. OD ready).

Jeff Marquez (15-9 at Trenton this season with a 3.6 era)

I'd say that would do it. They get a a-level CF'er, an a-level prospect in Kennedy (and maybe two including Marquez) and a strong b-level OD ready pitcher in Karstens. throw in a player or two to be named later and you've got a deal.

Golf, I like the deal, I just wonder if the Twins are willing to take it. It really stinks playing "wait-and-see". I think that the Twins would be better off taking more of our position player prospects than pitching. I think that a compelling offer would involve Melky, Jackson or Tabata, and Ian Kennedy. I think if we throw in a guy like Karstens it could sweeten the deal. I wonder how the discussions are progressing?

RSL, Look at Kirby Puckett's numbers and then look at Mattingly's. I think Donnie deserves to be in the hall.

Had the Yanks won the WS this year, maybe yes. But I still think it will take the veterans committee to get Donnie Baseball into the HOF. You can compare his numbers to others all you want and they still wont vote him in. No, I don't know why but that is the way they seem to be.

Yeah, I'm not saying he gets in. It stinks that they won't vote him in, I just think he deserves entry.

how about Pavano, Farnsworth, Igawa, and a prospect for Santana? (Pavano could learn to play CF, lol)

chaz
i have been making that kirby puckett arguement my whole adult life, it seems a WS ring is what this comittee is all about

I think Roger Maris should be elected into the HOF as well as Goose Gossage and Don Mattingly.

Okay, you know what...does anybody have a label maker?? We have to print out huge labels with the word “untouchables” on them and plaster them on the heads of Joba, Hughes, Cano and melki. Santana is not worth either of them as individuals!! I just think of the careers each one of them can have and I want them to have it in pinstripes. If even one of them gets traded I’d scream. Even if Cy Young himself was on the market…I wouldn’t trade them.

whoa whoa whoa...since when was Maris NOT in the HOF??? i didn't know that

mark mcgwire in or out of the HOF????

McGwire? OUT! He can sit at home and pump himself full of "Andreno" and explode for all I care.

Maris had that one super season, and then a whole bunch of slightly above average seasons. That 61 season really took alot out of him.

i bet cashman would've traded the whole minor league system for maris (in the worn out days)

Jeterstar, although I agree with the sentiment I doubt Maris gets in.

I think it's a bit strange that with similar numbers the Kirbster is in but Donnie Baseball still looks in from the outside?

I guess the HOF likes to keep the requirements mum so that they can just make up reasons for adding or not adding a player in any given year.

To say that having a WS ring is a 'ticket' is silly. Grab any player from any WS team and tell me they're ALL HOF shoe-ins? You know that'd be preposterous, so are they saying that because Kirbster did have a ring that made it ok for him to be in but not Donnie because he don't have gold?

I thought that team goals and achievements weren't supposed to be a part of the decision making, because let's face it, any fool lucky enough to be on a WS winning team would then have a leg-up on his counterparts and may not even be in the same skill levels? (think Pedroia and ARod)

It just seems odd to me that they can't set milestones or something tangible that removes bias or opinion from the equation.

You know I'd be interested in knowing what player in the Hall has the worst numbers comparatively to their position or the next worst player in the Hall... then compare that to all players who've played at 'that' same type of level through history... think we'll see some mad inconsistency?

Ok, onto the topic at hand!

I'm skeptical that a Cabrera/Hughes or Cabrera/Kennedy trade for Santana in and of itself is not overspending already, much less adding more onto that nicely looking cake.

I suppose projection-wise you could make the argument, but that's only an argument, we won't know until x-years have gone by and we can look at the results.

Hughes of course straightup would seem unbalanced but only due to past performance or lack thereof.

I still think we should refrain from this deal unless we can entice with some of our position prospects. Since it seems that the Twins would balk at this proposal, then only dangle Kennedy of the 3. At this point with perhaps no Pettitte, you can't include Wang in this package (2 SPs + for 1).

Remember too that it'd be in the Sox's interests to have us believe their in the market for Johann. Not to say that they couldn't accomodate him, but really their SP is dialed (as was said earlier) for the next couple years.

And no it wouldn't be:

Beckett

Santana

Matsuzaka

Wakefield

It'd be:

Beckett

Santana

Schilling

Matsuzaka

Wakefield

I think they also have one other SP too besides Lester and Bucholtz. Their team is stacked with SPs. Of course it's an opportunity market with Santana so we do have to keep that in mind.

I do have this gut-feeling that Santana will not be a Red Sock. Not saying we're getting him... but I'd be willing to bet that Boston won't get him as opposed to us getting him.

I also have this funny feeling that we will land Santana; my hope though is that we don't give too much to make it happen. I hope Cash has been reading because I think a lot of you here have made sound arguments to support your decision making in Cash's stead... :P

I mean I suppose we can look at all this and say this is how it's supposed to work because first thing's first, we have to trot someone out there for the first pitch; so SPs first then fill in your Pen. But I am worried that we're either not going after the best of the pool for what we need, or we've already resigned that they're not what we want or need for some reason or other...

Even if we get Santana, we need relief help in some manner. Or does Joe think that he'll do so much better at managing those arms they won't be done by mid-June?!

I'm going to be following the Dodgers a lot this next year (hello MLB.TV season 3!) to see how Joe manages that pen out there too.

I know Maris isn't going to get in the HOF, but I just WISH he was in, that dude was pretty awesome to break Babe Ruth's record, NATURALLY of course.

I totally blew by that comment about Ichiro.

Of course it's water under das bridge at this point, but wow that'd have been nice, Ichiro - Jeter - Abreu - ARod - Matsui - Posada - Cano - Cabrera/Damon Phillips/Giambi

Wowsers!

Not that big a deal though... we don't need no stinkin' Ichiros! Heck I say ARod should just tell MLB now that he wants his jersey to read: The next HR King. If Ichiro can get exceptions, others should too!

Hey Knuteroc,

2 things on the Yanks bullpen: first, one an interview with Girardi he was quoted as saying that the Yankees have plenty of bullpen talent and that it just needs to develop (Ohlendorf, Veras, Ramirez,Kennedy?). Secondly, I read somewhere that the Yankees have inquired about Kansas City's David Riske (who had unbelievable numbers last year, and is only 31). So, I don't think we're in as bad of shape as people think:

Just imagine:

Long relief: Moose or Kennedy

Middle: Veras, Oholendorf, Ramirez OR Farnsworth, and Riske.

Honestly, all we need is Farnsworth to shape-up, sign 1 other veteran guy like Riske, and develop the SICK bullpen talent that we have- Edwar is salvageable, Ohelendorf showed some great composure, and Jose Veras looked just ourtight scary at times.

What about Haren?? If we want to avoid the huge shipment of young talent to Minnesota, why not make a move for Haren and avoid the imminent price tag in order to convince Santana?

Hi,

My first post-wondering if Dan Haren would be a better trade-obviously money wise for the next 3 years he would be-but what would the A's want for him?

I don't want to see 4 years and $19million on some doush bag like Linebrickhead. I hope the White Sox choke on that investment.

Grow the bullpen organically: Veras, Ohlendorf, Kennedy, all have plus fastballs in the 94-97mph range. Give them some time with Eiland and see what happens.

What I DO want to say change on the Yankees, now that we've settled Po,Mo,A-rod, is a focus on the rotation (happening now), and also developing our internal talent at 1st base.

Betemit: in 240AB's last year he hit 14 bombs. Now I know he's not the next Gehrig, but he's quality defensively, and can hit for some power. I think with more consistent game opportunities this guy could hit 25+ homers per year, PLUS I think the opportunity to see pitching on a regular bases will help increase that average a little.

Give him 400-450 AB's, get him swinging in the .250range and i'm as happy as a clam.

Platoon Shelley on rest days for Betemit. Give Shelley to opportunity to get at bats while playing the corner outfields on off days for Damon/Matsui and Abreu. And don't even worry about the DH role since it'll be productive (Matsui/Damon/Giambi).

I read in ESPN magazine that the A's and Billy Beane would want young postition ready players with good bats, you know like a Cabera and Cano type. Billy Beane, I have heard can be a pain to deal with, it won't be easy to get Danny Haren, but I'd be interested (at least I think I'd be interested).

The only way that meathead Farnsworth shapes p is if the Yanks avoid using himf for the entire season, at least he would post career-best numbers, and he won't kill the Yanks at the same time. LOL!!

Josh:
The A's want something like 6 cheap and 'above-average' prospects for Haren. I don't what the Yankees are willing to offer for him.

Imagine this:

Santana

Haren

Wang

Hughes

Chamberlain

muhahahahhahahahhahahah!

Haren would be be a good alternative to Santana, but as we all know the Yanks don't have any high quality position players ready to play at the major league level.

I don't know about you guys but the thought of Ohlendorf makes me sick, I just remember the Indians taking batting practice off him in game one of the ALDS, until Huhges was finally brought in, I still don't understand why Torre just didn't go with Phil as soon as he saw Wang didn't have his stuff.....WHY?!? But I guess I give Ohlendorf another shot, he's still young, I guess.

Stay away from any platoon situations period. We have already seen that they don't work. Keep Betemit out of the starting lineup, he will never hit for a high average and won't provide consistent offense at all. Like I have said he is nothing more than an "all or nothing" hitter. I would also prefer someone who is more than a one-dimensional player. Having a "good" glove isn't enough reason to put someone in the lineup. I would rather see Phillips as the starting first baseman. He will never hit for much power, but at least he is more consistent offensively while provide good defense at the same time. Betemit strikes out way too much as well.

Heheh, I didn't want to be too risque mentioning Riske. :P

Good point though, I guess if Joe feels that the arms he's got are workable, then that'll be what we go with.

I just keep harkening back to the season and thinking more often than not, ok they're calling in the pen, yikes lookout now, we're going to give up runs!

I'm not thrilled about the Yankees' first base situation but I would go with Andy Phillips to start at first base for sure, I still want Mark Teixeira on this team, but I guess that is not going to happen any time soon....sniff, sniff.

Yeah!! I think Atlanta will lock him down for the long haul, unfortunately.

Well Mark is supposed to play with Alanta next season and then he'll be a free agent, so it is up to Mark if he wants to stay in Alanta, he looked so happy on the Braves last season, I miss seeing him play, down here in TX for sure.

Yeah! I don't think he will ever be a Yank, but who knows.

I can always dream, right Matt, and I know this is off subject but what happened with that Monday night Phins game, 3 to O? Wow that's bad, Matt, sorry.

I turned the game off at halftime. What can one expect with an inexperienced rookie quarterback with no RB's to help and nasty weather. The season just keeps getting uglier and uglier.

And yet the Dolphins blogs are full of delusional Phins fans who spout these nauseating comments about how good this team would have been this season "if this" and "if that" didn't happen to this team. LEts stick with reality people!!

I really want your Phins to run the table in reverse, Matt! That would be the coolest thing in the history of the NFL! 0-16 that just sounds so awesome. LOL, I'm kidding. They had a shot yesterday, maybe Williams will put down the bong long enough to pick up the football?

The NFL is lucky that noone was seriously injured on that field last night.

yes, with a score of 3-0, a passerby might think that these teams have the best DEFENSE in the league.

DEFENSE BABY,,,,DEFENSE,,,,,

MLB: Dudes on roids, and the occasional drunk driver.
NFL: Dudes on roids that murder, r a p e, commit spousal abuse and assault, deal dope, and live life more or less "gangsta"!

Makes me wonder why Americans hate baseball, and love the NFL so much.......

Williams was injured when he was stepped on last night. So sad to hear about Taylor's death.

Still a chance that could happen jeterstar, just like there's still a chance the Patsies could go 19-0 this season. Must be good to be a sports fan in the Boston area with the Suks, Patsies, and Celts. Color me jealous.

chaz
you forgot dogfighting, michael "Bones" Vick aka mickeyV.

Well, with regard to Taylor, if someone broke into my house while I was out and planted a knife on my bed, I would be hard pressed to keep my family in that house. Secondly, (after I got my family out of there) I would be on 24 hour alert for someone to finish delivering the "message", and my model 1100, Semi-automatic 12 guage shotgun would have a message of its own to deliver. Did I hear right that he got shot going for a machete? Um.....never bring a knife to a gunfight. It's too bad, he was only 24 years old, and left behind a daughter. Really tragic.

but he said he is sorry & found God, so everything is perfect again.

and OJ said he is looking for the real killers, so we can sleep comfortably. thanks OJ

the gunman missed one shot, but the 2nd was in his private, what kind of world do we live in, guys shooting in the "groing-in-section"

According to Taylor's girlfriend, they heard noises in the house, and Taylor grabbed the machete before the intruder broke into the room and he was shot in the upper leg hitting the femoral artery.

It does look like the lifestyle of many football players is more " gangsta" like you say chaz with players like Punk-Man Jones, and Vick and quite a few others. It's just tragic that a great sport like football is being rapped on like that!!

he said rapped.....

I meant "crapped". Look what you guys got me doing. HA! HA!

****!!! Williams is now out for the season with an injury.******!! When it rains it pours for the Phins. Can't remember when a team was this snake bit in a season.

Matt,

Just relax and let it happen.....Think about it, 0-16! That is so cool! Your favorite team will be the one that not only ran the table, but also ran it in reverse! This is NFL history, Dude! Just enjoy the show! ROFLcopter!

Here's a thought, don't grab the machete next time...GRAB THE GUN! Or, is that why Idahoans don't get their houses robbed?

LOL!!!! LOL!!!!! LOL!!!!!! LOL!!!!! LOL!!!!!

The phins wouldn't be the first team to end the season w/o a win. The Bucs went 0-14 in their first franchise season, and started the following season 0-12. They have the most consecutive losses (26).

Amire,

Don't crush the dream with your facts, dude. It kills the illusion.

lol, sorry chaz

Phins would be first team in history to go 0-16 since NFL expanded regular season schedule.

So dream, errrrrrr nightmare continues.

LOLlyskates. LMAOnaise.

HAHAHA chaz i love it

http://skippy.net/images/roflcopter.gif

true

Here's a rumor I saw up at Yesnetwork, I don't know if it's true, but if it is, this is a great turn of events:

The Yankees have prepared an offer of: Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera and Jose Tabata.

The Twins prefer Phil Hughes over Kennedy, but realize that they can come out of the deal with one of our Big Three, their Centerfielder ( Melky ) and a very promising 5-Tool type OF prospect in Jose Tabata.

Currently, the Yankees are the only club making a run at Hughes and thus showing any signs of major interest. The Red Sox are not in need of a rotation upgrade, so they will not make a run at Santana.

If the deal gets done ( winter meetings next week, or shortly after next week. ) this would be great, the Yanks keep Hughes and Joba and aacquire Santana.

At the end of the day, this is just a trade package and changes can be made at any time, so, we'll see what happens. Santana said that he will waive his no trade clause for the Yankees without hesitation, thus opening a negotiation window of 72 hours for a deal to get done. Besides the Yankees, the Mets are the only other team at this point that will be pushing hard for Santana.

I picked up on this rumor from Yesnetwork, which originated from WFAN at 1:54 PM. Remeber, rumors are rumors, we'll see if this is real next week.

How come we can't do a multiple team trade with the Twins and someone else so we don't lose two major guys. How about we trade Farnsworth and a prospect to another team for a quality player. Then have that other team sends one decent player (or two prospects to the Twins) We get Santana. We send Melky and a prospect or Hughes and a prospect, not both.

Why can't Cashman just turn off the "fair trades" in the options menu and trade some A-ball scrub for Johan? Seems to work fine for me on my video game......

I am just really scared that this Johan deal will give us temporary success, and completely jack us up in the long term. Time will tell I suppose. I mean, after all, we were sure that Boston was going to get A-Rod, and WE got him. I guess the same could happen in reverse to us. The bright side to that is that we would be facing the finest Boston rotation ever SANS Johan. So the overkill of having him in there still offers the chance at exploiting the other facets of their game.