Cranky body vs. shoulder MRI
There has already been a lot of talk in the last 24 hours about Mariano Rivera's shoulder, what Joe Girardi knew, when he knew it, and why the stories told by Girardi and Brian Cashman don't seem to match up perfectly. Suffice it to say this: Mark Feinsand sums it up a whole lot more efficiently on his blog than it would be for me to rehash everything here.
Here's MLB.com's rundown on the story from last night, where Girardi's tense session is recounted in a little more detail. With an early-morning flight from Toronto to Boston to reflect on this (OK, I slept most of the way), The idea that a 38-year-old pitcher might have some sort of discomfort in his pitching shoulder during the month of September is not, in and of itself, a huge surprise.
Earlier this month I was talking with Brian Bruney and a ESPN story about John Maine and the Mets bullpen flashed on the bullpen. I mentioned that it didn't look good for Maine to return this year because he was complaining of feeling a "knot" in his pitching shoulder. Bruney paused a beat and said, "Doesn't everybody?"
That speaks in no way to the possible severity of any injury to Rivera. Clearly if - as has been reported - Rivera needs arthroscopic surgery after the season, then there's a question if he was handled correctly in permitting him to pitch four out of five games this week. But there's also a very good chance that Rivera did not mention anything until the Yankees were eliminated from postseason contention. It's also very possible that Rivera just didn't want to have reporters asking him about his shoulder for the last three days of the season.
Here's what close friend Jose Veras had to say: "I think it is not a big deal. He just felt a little sore and went to check to make sure that everything is normal. I don't think it's a big deal. I think it's going to be OK. He can pitch, but he doesn't want to keep pitching like that, you know what I mean? He made sure that he went to check. Hopefully he'll be OK and I think he's coming [Friday]."
Here's MLB.com's rundown on the story from last night, where Girardi's tense session is recounted in a little more detail. With an early-morning flight from Toronto to Boston to reflect on this (OK, I slept most of the way), The idea that a 38-year-old pitcher might have some sort of discomfort in his pitching shoulder during the month of September is not, in and of itself, a huge surprise.
Earlier this month I was talking with Brian Bruney and a ESPN story about John Maine and the Mets bullpen flashed on the bullpen. I mentioned that it didn't look good for Maine to return this year because he was complaining of feeling a "knot" in his pitching shoulder. Bruney paused a beat and said, "Doesn't everybody?"
That speaks in no way to the possible severity of any injury to Rivera. Clearly if - as has been reported - Rivera needs arthroscopic surgery after the season, then there's a question if he was handled correctly in permitting him to pitch four out of five games this week. But there's also a very good chance that Rivera did not mention anything until the Yankees were eliminated from postseason contention. It's also very possible that Rivera just didn't want to have reporters asking him about his shoulder for the last three days of the season.
Here's what close friend Jose Veras had to say: "I think it is not a big deal. He just felt a little sore and went to check to make sure that everything is normal. I don't think it's a big deal. I think it's going to be OK. He can pitch, but he doesn't want to keep pitching like that, you know what I mean? He made sure that he went to check. Hopefully he'll be OK and I think he's coming [Friday]."
Bryan, Is Pudge done for the season?
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Guys, CC has never come out and said he does NOT want to be a Yankee, and all the " West Coast " crap has been all rumor up until now. He has family living in the west coast area, but that's about the only factual statement that has been provided by the media so far. The other stuff gets overblown, I thought you guys were savvy enough to know this by now? He hasn't " bought a house in LA " either. CC said he just wants to be happy in his next destination and believe me, he'll be more than happy to pitch for the bombers alongside a manager who knows how to handle pitchers. Not to mention the dollar figures that we'll offer him. The Brewers are definitely riding this guy hard though... pitching him on three days rest and making him throw 100 + pitches to go along with it. That certainly doesn't bode well for his overall future health. His arm is bound to bark back at him, you just hope it won;t ruin his career for one lousy playoff run.
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Boston's pitcher has a worse ERA than Kennadia, we should be having fun.
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CC is going to command as many years as Santana and more money, thanks but no thanks.
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Catchers
Brad Ausmus (40)
Paul Bako (37)
Rod Barajas (33) - $2.5MM club option for '09 with a $0.5MM buyout INTERESTING ONE
Michael Barrett (32)
Henry Blanco (37) - $3MM mutual option for '09 with a $0.3MM buyout
Johnny Estrada (33)
Toby Hall (33) - $2.25MM club option for '09 with a $0.15MM buyout
Jason LaRue (35)
Paul Lo Duca (37)
Miguel Olivo (30) - $2.7MM mutual option for '09 with a $0.1MM buyout
Mike Redmond (38) - $0.95MM club option for '09 with a $0.1MM buyout
Ivan Rodriguez (37) YES, 1 YEAR
David Ross (32)
Javier Valentin (33)
Jason Varitek (37) NO WAY
Gregg Zaun (38)
First basemen
Rich Aurilia (37)
Hank Blalock (28) - $6.2MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Sean Casey (34)
Tony Clark (37)
Carlos Delgado (37) - $12MM club option for '09 with a $4MM buyout; can become $16MM based on awards points
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Jason Giambi (38) - $22MM club option for '09 with a $5MM buyout YES
Wes Helms (33) - $3.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.75MM buyout
Eric Hinske (31)
Doug Mientkiewicz (35)
Kevin Millar (37)
Richie Sexson (34)
Mark Teixeira (29)
Daryle Ward (34)
Second basemen
Willie Bloomquist (31)
Jamey Carroll (35) - $2.5MM club option for '09 with a $0.15MM buyout
Craig Counsell (38)
Ray Durham (37) EVALUATE
Damion Easley (39)
David Eckstein (34)
Mark Ellis (32)
Mark Grudzielanek (39)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (33)
Orlando Hudson (31) IF CANO MOVES POSITION
Tadahito Iguchi (34)
Jeff Kent (41)
Felipe Lopez (29)
Mark Loretta (37)
Nick Punto (31)
Shortstops
Willie Bloomquist (31)
Orlando Cabrera (34)
Alex Cintron (30)
Alex Cora (33)
Craig Counsell (38)
David Eckstein (34)
Adam Everett (32)
Rafael Furcal (31)
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (33)
Cesar Izturis (29)
Felipe Lopez (29)
Edgar Renteria (33) - $12MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Juan Uribe (30)
Ramon Vazquez (32)
Omar Vizquel (42) - $5.2MM club option for '09 with a $0.3MM buyout
Third basemen
Rich Aurilia (37)
Casey Blake (35)
Hank Blalock (28) - $6.2MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Willie Bloomquist (31)
Aaron Boone (36)
Russell Branyan (33)
Craig Counsell (38)
Joe Crede (31)
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Wes Helms (33) - $3.75MM club option for '09
Chipper Jones (37) - $8-11MM vesting option for '09
Mark Loretta (37)
Fernando Tatis (34)
Ramon Vazquez (32)
Left fielders
Moises Alou (42)
Garret Anderson (37) - $14MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Milton Bradley (31)
Emil Brown (34)
Pat Burrell (32)
Carl Crawford (27) - $8.25MM club option for '09 with a $2.5MM buyout INTERESTING
Adam Dunn (29)
Cliff Floyd (36) - $2.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Luis Gonzalez (41)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (33)
Raul Ibanez (37)
Gabe Kapler (33)
Kevin Mench (31)
Jason Michaels (33) - $2.6MM club option for '09
Craig Monroe (32)
Greg Norton (36)
Jay Payton (36)
Wily Mo Pena (27) - $5MM club option or $2MM player option for '09
Manny Ramirez (37) WE WILL EVALUATE BUT HE WILL STAY IN LA
Juan Rivera (30)
Fernando Tatis (34)
Center fielders
Rocco Baldelli (27) HMM
Willie Bloomquist (31)
Mike Cameron (36) - $10MM club option for '09 with a $750K buyout WE LIKE HIM, I LIKE HIM AS A BACKUP
Jim Edmonds (39)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (33)
Gabe Kapler (33)
Mark Kotsay (33)
Corey Patterson (29) WE LIKE HIM, I DON'T
Scott Podsednik (33)
Right fielders
Bobby Abreu (35) MAYBE 1 YEAR DEAL
Casey Blake (35)
Cliff Floyd (36) - $2.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout MAYBE A BENCH PLAYER
Brian Giles (38) - $9MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Ken Griffey Jr. (39) - $16.5MM club option for '09 with a $4MM buyout IF HE WANTS TO PINCH HIT FOR 500K
Vladimir Guerrero (33) - $15MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout WATCHING
Gabe Kapler (33)
Jason Michaels (33) - $2.6MM club option for '09
Fernando Tatis (34)
Brad Wilkerson (32)
DHs
Milton Bradley (31)
Pat Burrell (32)
Adam Dunn (29) TOO MUCH MONEY
Cliff Floyd (36) - $2.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Jason Giambi (38) - $22MM club option for '09 with $5MM buyout
Vladimir Guerrero (33) - $15MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Raul Ibanez (37)
Manny Ramirez (37)
Juan Rivera (30)
Mike Sweeney (35)
Frank Thomas (41)
Jose Vidro (34)
Starting pitchers
Kris Benson (33)
A.J. Burnett (32) - can opt out after '08 season
Paul Byrd (38)
Roger Clemens (46) WHO?
Matt Clement (33)
Bartolo Colon (36)
Ryan Dempster (32)
Shawn Estes (36)
Josh Fogg (32)
Freddy Garcia (33)
Jon Garland (29)
Tom Glavine (43)
Mike Hampton (36)
Mark Hendrickson (35)
Livan Hernandez (34)
Orlando Hernandez (43)
Jason Jennings (30)
Randy Johnson (45)
John Lackey (30) - $9MM club option for '09 with a $0.5MM buyout
Jon Lieber (39)
Kyle Lohse (30)
Braden Looper (34)
Rodrigo Lopez (33) - club option for '09
Derek Lowe (36)
Greg Maddux (43)
Pedro Martinez (37)
Jamie Moyer (46)
Mark Mulder (31) - $11MM club option for '09 with a $1.5MM buyout
Mike Mussina (40) DONE DEAL
Carl Pavano (33) - $13MM club option for '09 with a $1.95MM buyout
Brad Penny (31) - $8.75MM club option for '09 with a $2MM buyout
Odalis Perez (32)
Oliver Perez (27)
Andy Pettitte (37) HE SAYS HE WILL PLAY 1 YEAR 5M
Sidney Ponson (32)
Mark Prior (27)
Kenny Rogers (44)
Glendon Rusch (34)
C.C. Sabathia (28) PASS
Curt Schilling (42) WHO?
Ben Sheets (30)
John Smoltz (42)
Tim Wakefield (42) - perpetual $4MM club option LMAO
Kip Wells (32)
Randy Wolf (32)
Closers
Brian Fuentes (33) YES
Eric Gagne (33)
Eddie Guardado (38)
Trevor Hoffman (41)
Jason Isringhausen (36)
Todd Jones (41)
Brandon Lyon (29)
Francisco Rodriguez (27) I THINK HE;S GONE
Salomon Torres (37) - $3.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.3MM buyout
Kerry Wood (32)
Middle relievers
Jeremy Affeldt (30)
Luis Ayala (31)
Joe Beimel (32)
Joe Borowski (38)
Doug Brocail (42) - club option for '09
Shawn Chacon (31)
Juan Cruz (30)
Alan Embree (39) - $3MM club option for '09
Scott Eyre (37)
Kyle Farnsworth (33)
Casey Fossum (31)
Keith Foulke (35)
Tom Gordon (41) - $4.5MM club option for '09 with a $1MM buyout HOW MUCH FOR A MINOR LEAGUE DEAL?
LaTroy Hawkins (36)
Mark Hendrickson (35)
Matt Herges (39) - club option for '09
Bob Howry (35)
Jon Lieber (39)
Jason Johnson (35)
Damaso Marte (34) - $6MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout BYE
Trever Miller (36) - $2MM club option for '09 with a $0.4MM buyout
Guillermo Mota (35)
Will Ohman (31)
Darren Oliver (38)
Chan Ho Park (36)
Horacio Ramirez (29)
Al Reyes (38)
Dennys Reyes (32)
Arthur Rhodes (39)
Juan Rincon (30)
Glendon Rusch (34)
Rudy Seanez (40)
Brian Shouse (40)
Russ Springer (40)
Mike Timlin (43)
Ron Villone (39)
David Weathers (39)
Kip Wells (32)
Matt Wise (33)
Jamey Wright (34)
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Pudge, Fuentes, Griffey as backup, Pettitte, Moose, Giambi.
Crawford, Manny, Abreu or Guerrero
Durham or Hudson
Gordon and Pedro -minor league deal
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El Duque is going to retire a Yankee, watch.
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Delgado or Giambi, thats tough, both?
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WTF is wrong with you bpark? Are you just playing games with this roster? Do you understand the diluted state this roster and organization would be in if we signed all of these veterans, who no longer bare any athletic ability? Do you understand the terrible state we would leave our minor league system by giving up all of those draft picks? I don't think it's possible that Griffey signs as a backup, the guy is still an elite hitter who, by the way, can still field greatly in CF.
Giambi needs to leave, Delgado needs to stay away. This year is going great for him, despite his pitiful start to the season; I wish him the best, and the maybe he's earned a multi-year deal somewhere, just not in New York, not even with the Mets. They will offer him arb. and he will walk, the Mets will pick up draft picks from the team who signs him and replace him either internally or sign Teixeira, who the Yankees are not going to be hot on. CC Sabathia is near or at the very top of our list, with Burnett and Sheets a close second and third. As for the middle tier FA starters, Garland could be our fall back, assuming no other team overbids for an innings eater. ( Seattle, anyone? )
El Duque will retire a Metropolitan.
Pedro is most likely going to be back with the Mets as a back-end starter, as their problems lie within their bullpen, not their rotation. Oliver Perez will also be back with them; Minaya cannot afford to lose a young, stud lefty like him. If he does, than you can label him a Yankee faster than Sabathia, simply because he's younger, cheaper and knows how to pitch against big name teams like... the Yankees.
Even with the bust that has become of Pudge since his July acquisition, he will not- his ego will not let him be a backup to anybody. He could land a job very easily with the cross-town Mets, the Angels ( who do not have, per-say, a real starting catcher ) or he could be back with Detroit.
Fuentes seems likely to close, he will not setup ( K-Rod's deal will be his benchmark ). Leave him out of the equation.
Unfortunately, 36 Million dollars will not bring back Jorge Posada's shoulder, he'll be an expensive DH/C/1B, and if he does somehow find a miracle and comes back to catch for the majority of the season,that's just one less problem to look at in this LONG off-season.
I would only trade Cano for a stud pitcher. San Francisco seems to be a good match. On the other hand, I don't want to trade Cano anyway, above is just the only circumstance I would take exception to.
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Is this Chaz?
Move = Move position for Cano
I'd rather have Pudge catching than anyone else. Posada is not gonna be able to throw or catch above his head unless there is a miracle. PUDGE WOULD START. He told me last week Girardi has asked him to stay, strange how he hasn't played in days. GIRARDI DID SAME WITH GIAMBI AND PETTITTE, SO IS GIRARDI A BUSTA?
El Duque can retire a Yankee without pitching, we honored him in the clip, we should do 1 better than Jeff Nelson.
CC IS NOT SANTANA, IF THE METS WANT TO TRADE SANTANA FOR CC, I'D DO IT BUT THEY WON'T.
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AS FOR GRIFFEY, CHAZ, NO WAY HE IS SIGNS A STARTER UNLESS THE RAYS LOSE CRAWFORD.
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Word to Aceves, he had a tough start after the rain delay.
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an,
Besides ERA, Johnsons stats from 06 are actually pretty good. Far less than a hit per inning, 3 to 1 K/BB, 172 K's, the team went 21-12 in the games he started...etc etc. What the heck have you been smoking?
By ian@invu4uraqt.com on September 26, 2008 7:03 PM
The only reason the Yanks won those 21 games was because of the offense not because of him. Not only was his ERA bloated he allowed 28 HRs that year, the third highest total of his career and allowed the allowed the highest total of runs to score in his career, and that was after allowing a career-high32 HR's the previous year. Who cares how many K's he got that season? That number is far less significant than the numbers that I just stated. Also who cares about the hits-to-IP. It's not the numbers of hits he gives up it's what the opponent does with those hits, and obviously Johnson allowed a lot to be done with those hits. None of those stats mean he was successful, that's got to be the dumbest thing I ever heard. For the most part those type of stats don't always equal success. I would rather have a pitcher who has an ERA close to 3.00 and strikeout 100 rather than a pitcher who throws 93-95 mph and can strikeout 250 hitters in a season while posting an ERAof 5.00+. You must sit on your brains for a living if you think those type of stats mean he had a successful season. He was also terrible in the postseason going 0-0 6.14 in '05 and 0-1 7.94.
You must be a real genius if you think the Yanks got anything out of that deal? Who Jackson?, Ohlendorf? Gonzalez? Vizcaino? LOL!!!None of those no-talents are even on the Yanks ML roster and it's highly unlikely the Yanks will see Jackson. Yeah, you're a real baseball "genius". You don't make a trade "hoping" to make another trade sometime down the road with and getting something in return, especially when it involves a 40 -something year old pitcher who was showing signs on being on the decline. You make a deal like that hoping the player will help the team, no one is thinking about what deals you can make down the road. You're a real genius!!
By matthew_saiki@gmail.com on September 26, 2008 10:28 PM
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We let Viz walk, he is better than Hawkins, big mistake.
If Jackson is Austin Jackson, then we won. IF its Steven, time will tell.
We got alot for Ohli.
Gonzo was an error though I thought we'd cut him loose with Sardinho.
IN REALITY, WE DID THE RIGHT THING WITH RANDY, HIS BROTHER PASSED, I HAVE NEVER LOST A BROTHER SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND.....SHEFF DEAL WAS BOGUS, WRIGHT DEAL WAS BOGUS, WE COULD HAVE GOT MORE FOR BOTH.
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bronxkidd,
bpark has some kind of sick,disgusting love, for old, players who are well past their prime and would take this team down. He needs help!!!!
Great post about Johnson Matt, you are dead-on about him. Johnson SUCKED his last season with the YAnks. They did get suckered big time!! I couldn't care less about how many K's a pitcher has in a season, that's meaningless in this case!!
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13-4 = 0-0? If rained out?
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bronxkidd,
bpark has some kind of sick,disgusting love, for old, players who are well past their prime and would take this team down. He needs help!!!!
Great post about Johnson Matt, you are dead-on about him. Johnson SUCKED his last season with the YAnks. They did get suckered big time!! I couldn't care less about how many K's a pitcher has in a season, that's meaningless in this case!!
By redsuksblow on September 26, 2008 10:42 PM
minor league contracts? I like many of our youth movement. I like Hughes, Joba, Cano, Aceves, Gardener, Veras, Edwar, Coke and others, I believe in balance.
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I was talking about Steven Jackson. Ohlendorf wasn't the only player that was traded, it was trade made out of necessity and he was struggling at the time just as he is struggling with the Pirates as they are finding out he can't be a starter. Could have pulled that trade off even if the Yanks didn't have Ohlendorf. Gonzalez was traded to the Nationals for Jhonny Nunez no telling what the Yanks got there. Yanks didn't get much out of Vizcaino in the one season he was a Yankee with his 4.00+ ERA. In short, the Yanks got an unhappy player who couldn't pitch in NY, especially in the post season, and really didn't get much in terms of prospects.
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Matt, up date us on Steven Jackson, I know you like him.
Our trade with Pittsburgh was made because Colorado woofed on Fuentes, now we can get Fuentes for free. Nady is was a good get and the Mets will offer us anyone on their roster for him. CC + Nady for Santana? I wish.
We traded Gonzo at highest value but we made a Clippard type trade. We lost both times.
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Ransom or Gonzo? I'll go with Gonzo but I haven't seen Ransom's defense.
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I spoke with Sheff earlier. He said if Cash is gone, he will part time and even play infield.
ON ONE CONDITION, GEORGE TALKS TO HIM.
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**** bpark. You're such a friggin liar! YOU DIDN'T TALK TO PUDGE AND YOU DIDN'T TALK TO SHEFFIELD. I'M LAUGHING AS I WRITE THIS, BECAUSE THIS GUY IS UNBELIEVABLE. WHO THE F*** R U? SOME HIGH STANDING OFFICIAL IN MLB who just likes to comment on Bryan Hoch's blog along with us other nobodies? YOU'RE FULL OF ******!!
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No seriously... you're fuggin hilarious. Tell me what CC thinks about the Yankees tommorow, will ya? And if you can squeeze some time out with Teix, ask him how much he would love to become a YANKEE AS WELL. LOL!
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Ok, they both want to be Yankees, OK, doesn't 99% of the league? I have known Sheff since 91. As for Pudge, I consider him an excellent athlete.
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Chaz, if Tex is signed by Anaheim, Guerrero is ours. Speak.
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No one talking about last night's game? Any thrumping of the SUCHS, REGARDLESS of what it means is STILL a thrumping of the SUCHS!
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I got this strange email:
Re;Hello,
From: philomena nelson (phiilo4u2@yahoo.com)
You may not know this sender. Mark as safe | Mark as unsafe
Sent:Sat 9/27/08 6:18 AM
Reply-to:phiilo4u2@yahoo.com
To: phiilo4u2@yahoo.com
Hello dearest i need a help hope you will be of help to will solve this problem for me it's all about my life of present. I am ripe to be settled down, do you wish as well like I do?, and more there other help if you can not be with me as a life partner just get back to me so that we can talk better take care of yourself and please be-were I got Ur profile from (www.bombersbeat.mlblogs.com) hoping to read from you, yours Philomena.
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The conversation which although early actually occured early this year. I have known Sheff for a long time, I ran into him at a movie spot.
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I too have been getting a lot of spam in my email account, quite possibly due to the public nature of it here.
I'd like to see MLB make these blogs and sites a username and p/w style of site.
I'll comment on last night's game. It did mean very little, but yes any good thumping of the Sox puts a smile on my face, although it doesn't quite pack the same punch as it having been at the expense of Dice K. Too bad we couldn't have seen this all year for the most part... but that's been our M.O.; beating on pitchers that shouldn't be starting MLB games while getting shut down by pitchers that clearly are MLB pitchers.
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Well well well, ok this confirms it. BPark and I have both been spammed now as a result of the open nature of bloggers' email account directly via this site.
Hoch, please pass the word on and I'll do the same, or just stop blogging period. This is precisely the reason user names should be used. I actually have a user name for MLB too, but these site admins must think it's cute to have the email address listed instead.
"philomena nelson (phiilo4u2@yahoo.com)
You may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as unsafe
Sent: Sat 9/27/08 5:18 AM
Reply-to: phiilo4u2@yahoo.com
To: phiilo4u2@yahoo.com
Hello dearest i need a help hope you will be of help to will solve this problem for me it's all about my life of present. I am ripe to be settled down, do you wish as well like I do?, and more there other help if you can not be with me as a life partner just get back to me so that we can talk better take care of yourself and please be-were I got Ur profile from (www.bombersbeat.mlblogs.com) hoping to read from you, yours Philomena."
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Actually I don't like or dislike Steven Jackson. He is a fringe prospect who bombed as a starter after being trade to the Yankees, and has been converted to a reliever. He finished this season somewhat strong at SWB 3-0 3.17, but started the season poorly in Trenton 1-3 5.74. His stock has dropped somewhat because of his problems and the depth of the pitching in the system.
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