Hot Stove: Hank speaks out

I'm supposed to believe what spews from Hank's piehole? What exactly has he said in the last 6 months that he hasn't flip-flopped on?

Lets say Mussina struggles or gets hurt, Kennedy would be the obvious choice but most would prefer Clemens in big games.

That's if Clemens isn't hurt himself, and that's a big "If". As last season showed he can't be relied on to stay healthy.

lets stop talking about this dumb clemens crud. he's not coming back healthy or hurt.

Out of Albaladejo, Bruney, Henn, Britton, Veras, Olendorf, and Ramirez; which 2 do you think could step up and help the yankees the most with, lets say, 40-50 innings each with mid-high 3's era next year?

I'm with corshep and Matt...I don't want to talk about Clemens anymore, and I do NOT want to see him in pinstripes.

Out of that list, I'd probably take Albaladejo and either Veras/Olhendorf. Ramirez has shown flashes of promise, but we'll see how he does in spring training. Bruney, Henn, and Britton are all wild cards, but I suppose any one of them also has a shot.

I can't wait for spring training, these battle for bullpen spots will be very interesting.

I find it very interesting how no one had said anything about losing Hughes and Cabrera. Hughes is a promising prospect, more promising than Kennedy, and i have no idea why Hank would even think about giving up Melky...he's got the most outfield assists in the entire league.

Who would replace him? Damon? fine, although he does not have nearly the range or arm of Cabrera. Then, who takes over left field when Matsui is injured?

cheerbrunette i dont know where you've been but we've all debated on the trade and most of us think that it's a bad idea because hughes could be our ace for 10+ years and cabrera is our starting CF and losing him would create a hole. So I don't know what your talking about, I guess check old blog topics.

I agree jlemoine, I think Albaladejo will put up sick numbers. Its also good knowing Girardi won't abuse our relievers' arms. Lemme here some other picks guys.

I'll take Igawa and Dotel, possibly add Mussina to the pen, unless Chamberneezy goes back there.

dotel wouldn't come to new york to be a set-up man he wants to stay a closer.

I agree.

That's if Clemens isn't hurt himself, and that's a big "If". As last season showed he can't be relied on to stay healthy.

Posted by: matt_saiki@yahoo.com | January 3, 2008 01:28 PM

Common Matt, this was his first arm injury, unlike Pettitte who has been plagued with elbow trouble.

This might be old news but is that Hawkins guy the Yankees just signed a few weeks ago, supposed to take over Joba's old role as the setup man to Rivera?

NO! Hawkins is suppost to fill Vizcaino's role. Farnsworth is the setup guy I believe.

Ok, here's me hoping all this Farnsworth is our set up man talk is a ploy to drive his trade price up. I know that's highly unlikely but that's what I hope for.

Farnsworth is supposed to be setup man? Thats kinda scary, but didn't Kyle straighten himself out towards the end of last season? But I still have a tough time trusting him, we'll see I guess.

Hey Arun, I read that you are a Colts fan on one of your previous posts and I believe Marvin Harrison should be ready to go for the playoffs, didn't he play in the last game of the season? I think he did.

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that Hank should keep his mouth shut? I read his article about Santana and was dumbfounded by the garbage that he spewed. After long thoughts and reading others' opinions, I agree that the price of Santana is too much. I believe it was Matt who said that there will be more holes to fill after this trade. Santana can pitch but, who's going to play CF? Damon is better in LF & Matsui & DH. I'm not convinced the Yanks will take the East with Santana. As for Farnsworth, here's what I think about him in the set up role

nodigidee, on the last blog i said the same thing about hank's fat mouth.

and jeterstar, no farnsworth had a 4.6 era in august and a 6.7 era in september. He has the capability to be lights out. But you can guarentee for every two 0-run appearances he has one 2-run appearance. He's not consistent at all.

I wanna hear from George. Please people stop interviewing Hank, he is like the former Iraq information minister or (disinformation minister as they started to call him when he said we were no where near Bagdad even though our tanks were seen in the background of his broadcast).

CF = Scott Patterson, Mike Cameron until a young player is ready. Possible Damon or Matsui may play center.

Farnsworth got Sheff out on a nasty pitch in a key game thats what people remember. The only reason he did that was because Sheff swings at everything including balls in the dirt.

Bryan Bruney, Kyle Farnsworth, Shaun Henn need to find a trash can and stand there until they are called.

Thanks for the info Corshep, wow I'm sad, the Yankees' bullpen is freakin terrible, jeez, this is what we have to go up against Boston? The tears are starting to come down...

bpark, Matsui in center? I think not. He has a tough enough time in left. And I don't think Damon is a viable everyday center fielder anymore.

Keep Melky. Keep Hughes. And Keep Clemens the off this team!

matsui play center.. haha. No way. I cant almost guarentee that one of Matsui/Giambi/Damon gets hurt for a major part of the '08 season, bodies are just getting weaker and weaker with age. Cameron is a druggy and not talented. Scott Patterson maybe a quick, VERY QUICK fix if the santana deal is done, but doubt it will.

Who's Scott Patterson? You mean Corey from the Cubs? Mike Cameron's better days are behind him. Damon or Matsui in CF won't work because neither one of them are mobile and they can't hit the cutoff man.

No Patterson, no Cameron. Melky is a better option than both of them.

Cabrera and Hughes are young and will produce more than Santana and Patterson in the future.

Jlemoine, Sui has played center and might be better suited not having to play the corner, I agree...very unlikely.

Patterson was with BMore.

My mistake, Scott Patterson is the pitcher we signed.

jeterstar,
Thanks for the info on Harrison. Good to know.

I don't think the Twins are going to trade Santana now. With liriano coming back and with Morenau, Mauer and Delmon Young, as well as Nathan in the 'pen this team has a shot at competing next year. They have got tobelieve they can do something next year. There may very well be no trade.

"Steinbrenner imposed yet another informal deadline on the transaction, saying, "In the next two weeks, we're going to have to get everything done.""

Arun, Santana is too valuable not to get something for him and at those numbers, there is no way they can extend him.

Gotta like Alba (especially Jessica), Oley, and Veras.
The rest are long shots to me.

Veras=minor leaguer like Bruney?

Damon still has the range if our new S&C coach doesn't screw up in the Spring like last year (Moose and Wang had bad legs too)

Do I have to go to Miami in late March or Opening Day to lead a cheer for Farny?

If Melky leaves, I hope not, some other kid will have a chance for a call up. I like that. Would need a roster spot though. Oh! Would take Melky's.

When can Pavano go on the 60 day, Bryan?

Yes on Veras. But he wasn't bad in September and was great in Winter ball. He's got the stuff but needs control. Also has a funny little head jerk like Okajima, the real key to Bosox 2007.

My only interest in Clemens is, if he will go to the pen, could he imitate Joba's success. The kid leading the Rocket, worth a few $Mil, if only I had it!

Hank is doing a great job keeping the Press off of Cashman so Cash can do his job. They were kinda bored by Cash anyway. Hank gives them something more "sensational."
Always a plus in NY.

bpark,

I agree with you that the Twins will not want to see Santana walk. And while the wins pride themselves on their scounting, I know 2 draft picks won't come close to what Santana would fetch in a trade.

My point is this, would one year of Santana with a fair supporting staff + the chance to trade him in July if things don't work out + 2 draft picks equal Santana's trade value?

Last month I would have said the Twins should make the trade. Even last week. But as things stand, Twins have held on to Santana to long. His value (while still very high) is not as high as it was. Teams are beginining to approach spring without Santana, I sure hope the Yankees are, and the Twins might just get better value if someone has pitching issues in July and needs Santana in a bad way.

bpark,

Clemens had more than elbow problems last season. He had what he described as a "fatigued" groin, and left his one start with a left hamstring injury. I'm not saying he is going to have injury problems next season, but the possiblities are still there, you combine that with the fact that he is an older player, those two things don't exactly make a good match, plus the fact that the Yanks simply don't need him this season, they have the starters they need. Also feel he won't be able to come close to matching Chamberlain's success out of the pen. Most of last his velocity was around 91 m.p.h.

The Yanks also have Mussina who most likely won't last the entire season. The Yanks can't afford to have two pitchers like that on the staff.

Sorry,meant Twins not wins.

Hope Hughes stays and gets us some wins though. Hate to see him develop with the Twins.

But I agree with everyone who says don't bring back Clemens. Even if he stays healthy, as far as I'm concerned he should not take a start away from the kids, and he'll never agree to go to the pen.

Sorry, meant to say he left his one start in the playoffs with a left hamstring injury, and his velocity was for the most part around 91 m.p.h. last season.

This is my first time writing but I have been following this blog for the past couple of months. I can't believe how delusional many Yankee fans are about their team. I’ll continue to be a die- hard fan whether they win or lose next year but in order to dramatically improve our chances of winning we need to sign a #1 pitcher. Don’t take my word … take Jorge Posada’s word. And I agree that watching Yankees rise up through the farm system and excel in the majors is very exciting but what was the last Yankee farm pitcher that became a true ace. Maybe Andy Petitte? Now all of a sudden, people believe that all three Yankees (Joba, Hughes, Kennedy) are all destined for greatness. Unfortunately it just doesn’t happen that way. The Yankees should trade for Santana even if it means giving up Hughes, Cabrera, Horne and Jackson. Not only will it drastically improve their team in the near future and significantly improve their chances of winning meaningful playoff games but it will also spare Joba and Kennedy from throwing too many innings over the next two years. Cashman and Hank need to think practically and not idealistically!

Another person with a "win now" attitude. Have we learned nothing from past mistakes? Like I have said many times, Santana guarantees nothing. It takes a team to win championships not a player who pitches every 5th day. Yes, Santana will help make the Yanks a better team in the short run, but what happens if he winds up getting injured, and misses the rest of the season. The Yanks won't be short one pitcher , but two if you include Hughes, not to mention the team would be short a CF who the Yanks would struggle to replace since they would also be dealing away one of their 2 more talented CF in their system. Most likely, the Yanks would have to trade away at least 2 more higher-end prospects just to replace Cabrera, so already the Santana deal could be much more expensive than what the Yanks thought. Yes, pitchers like Hughes, and Kennedy are unproven, and inexperienced, and no one knows what to expect from them, but no one knows what to expect from Santana either. But the upside to keeping the young pitchers is definitely there. It's also much larger than Santana's so it's worth taking that chance of not doing the deal. One player is not wort the cost of this team's future.

Still Santana has a lot of mileage already. Nobody really want to give him 7 years @$20M. I think it more likely he'll get 4 years @$25M. The Yanks would like to help curb the craziness like Linebrink's 4 year @$4M.

If Clemens body breaks down in the third inning, no chance for him to start anymore. The pen is the only realistic opportunity for him. Would he be able to get outs with 91MPH and the slitter Cleveland didn't swing at. Did he surprise Hafner (not sure who it was)
with a 91 right down the middle? He sure as **** has the experience, and the grit.

splitter

Yeah, he probably has 5-10 years left as an effective pitcher while pitchers like Hughes, and Kennedy have maybe 15-20 years, and can win hundreds of games between them if everything goes like it should. But nothing about this whole thing is guaranteed, it's all a crapshoot.

I'm looking at his performance as a whole both in the regular season, and playoffs. He didn't look at that dominant, at least not as dominant as Chamberlain.

Matt, do you think Moose will break down. He prooved to everyone, including himself (I think), he can be effective NOT pitching every fifth day. Maybe the Yanks won't go to a true 6 man rotation, but it's common knowledge it will not be a strick 5 man either. You will see somewhere in between, both here and in Boston. They have six quality starters and kids to protect too. I may have been wrong about a wholesale arms exchange at the Winter meetings, but I like my chances to even my record here.

All things considered, I think the Rocket wants to teach. My guess is THAT is what George discussed with him that hasen't been revealed yet. But he does have a personal services contract with Houston. And Koby had only an average year in the low minors.

Some people forget that F. Peterson in 66 and Stottlemyre 64 became very good players. How about Pettitte and Mo in 95? So, as you see, asking us to believe that even two of three highly thought of pitchers can't make it in the same year or so just doesn't cut it.

First they want Santana and then they don’t. First A-rod drama, now Hank drama. Boy can things never be at peace in Yankee world. If Hank lives is the city, maybe it’s the cold that’s getting to him. I mean something must be because he wants to trade Hughes and Melki for Santana. Hughes, with work, can offer you what Santana does for many + years. Melki can offer you… I mean do I have to go on? We all know what Melki offers. I think he was to make great plays (like the one vs Boston) for people to notice his value. I just wish that if they want to make a move, make it now. I cant take suspense.

kreith, though he won 20 games, Fritz was best known for swapping wives with Mike Kekich. otherwise, great point!

SportsGirl, gotta be encouraged by Hank's saying "he knows what the fans want."

Did someone say that Santana doesn’t look as dominant as Joba Chamberlain? Can you please pass the Kool-Aid? I hope that Joba turns out to be an exceptional pitcher and he very well can be the Yankees future ace but to compare him to what Santana has accomplished is insane. Even if you are blinded and forget about the Cy Youngs, the strikeouts, and the fact that he consistently pitches over 200 innings … Just think about this … Last year in the AL he had a 3.33 ERA in the American League and it was considered an OFF YEAR. (Wang 3.7 and Petitte 4.05). If Joba has under a 4 ERA as a starter next year it would be a fantastic year for him. Not to mention the fact that he is only 29 … not like a Randy Johnson or Roger Clemens or Kevin Brown who were in their late 30s and early 40s who came to the Yankees in recent years. And he relies on a changeup which doesn’t have the damaging effects over the years as a slider does.
You probably also believed that Aaron Small and Shawn Chacon would both win 20 games following the 2005 season. Look how that turned out.

Recent history shows that teams win when they have quality top of the rotation pitchers. And as much as we all talk about the Glory Days of the Yankees in the late 90s, with O’Neill, Martinez, Williams … they had great pitchers like Cone, Clemens, Petitte, Hernandez, Key and Wells. Pitching wins games and Pitching wins Championships for next year and future years not holding on to prospects and AVERAGE CFs. I’m glad that Cashman runs this team and not many of these crazy fans.

"He prooved to everyone, including himself (I think), he can be effective NOT pitching every fifth day."

I think that sentence speaks volumes about Mussina right there. He is an older pitcher who is more susceptible to injuries. I'm not saying he will go down with an injury, but I have my doubts that he can go a whole season without an injury. I think he is running on fumes at this point in his career. Maybe they will rotate Kennedy, and Mussina in that 5th spot, who knows, but doesn't that say something about his effectiveness as a starting pitcher? Last season he struggled somewhat, and get back on track until he was given extra time off between appearances, but again, doesn't that say something about how fragile, and effective he is as a pitcher? That's why I feel he could be better served as a reliever in the pen where he won't have to pitch nearly as many innings, and he can rest his arm more, that's when he was most effective. If Mussina is going to be the 5th starter then fine treat him as a 5th starter, but I still have my doubts if the team has to go through the trouble of rotating another pitcher with him in the 5th spot.

I think you're a little mixed up there, I was responding to robert's post regarding Clemens not your post. Recent history also show that those type of pitchers have had the support of good pitching staffs, and good lineups backing them, the fact that youbring up names like Cone, Pettitte, Clemens, Hernandez, Key, and Wells just bears out that point, they all backed each other at one point during the 90's none of them did it on their own. Santana alone would not make this staff a great staff especially since most of them are young and unproven. Pitching wins games, and championships, but holding on to excellent prospects like Hughes, Cabrera, Tabata, and Jackson can build dynasties. What moves has Cashman made that really helped this team, and turned them into champions?

unfortunately, mussina is slotted to be the 3rd starter currently, and only a TERRIBLE spring training will bump him to the 5th spot.

Farnsworth deserves the hate in this blog. But I wish people would lay off Mussina a little. He hasn't run out of stuff, he has some left. His 2006 number great 15-7 mid/high 3 ERA. He was doing fine until 3 horrible, and i know they were horrendous, starts in a row. If they were scattered over the season it wouldn't be a big deal. So people shouldn't be treating him like he should be cut. He will start the season as a starter, and prob end it as long reliever. But he's gonna be a very important role as a veteran and inning-eater to help out the youngsters. MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSE!!

We got Mussina, the Bosox have Schilling, who is better?

And on Santana, it's the money and year 5, 6, and 7.

Cashman has the system stocked. We just need a little patience! We may fail again this year, but, we're gonna kick *** again soon! Even if Santana goes to Boston. Personally, I think the Mets are gonna ask for donations. Count me in, I love Willy.

Hey, the **** is automatic. Didn't know donkey's got that much respect. New thing learned today, even for an old f... like me!

god i just got so depressed.

Yankees relievers with ERA below 3.5 with at least 40 innings pitched:

Rivera - 3.15

Red Sox relievers w/era <3.5

Papelbon - 1.85

Okajima - 2.22

J Lopez - 3.10

Timlin - 3.42

Corey,

The Spring and early season will be plenty of time to find out if we have some good arms for the pen. July will be plenty of time to get whatever we lack. That's why there was no wholesale exchange, and it's cheaper this way too. Can Dice-k, Okajima, and Papelbon get better, or will the league catch up. My bet would be the later. Cheer up, the Spring is coming. What was that Peter Seller's role again? You know, the one about the gardener!

Hope all of you saw this by Peter Abraham:

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/12/28/heres-how-the-2008-season-will-go/

Hahaha thanks for that link Bob, that was great.

Let me just sum up my opinions of the topics that have been covered while I was away at work...

1. No Clemens. Ever.

2. Farnsworth blows, what else is new? I hope the Yank change their mind about him being set up...

3. Screw Santana. Hughes will be great, Melky is too valuable.

4. Corshep, you scared me with those numbers. I hope some of our young guys can join Mo in the "our ERA doesn't blow" club.

5. Agreed about Mussina, I am encouraged by his 2006 numbers, and I think he can bounce back a little. I predict 13-8, 4.43 ERA. Ok, I pulled those out of my ***...but you get the point. I expect Mussina to put up numbers that are perfectly acceptable for a #5 starter.

oh.. and forgot about
Manny Declarmen - 2.05 ERA

That makes 5-1 relievers with ERA below 3.5 w/ at least 40 innings pitched in favor of boston......ugh