Yankees: "Outside chance" for Santana

Do the Twins really believe that Lester Coco, and 2MLers are comparable to the Yankee offer of Kennedy, Cabrera and MLers??? (on the outside chance) are we still in this??
Nolan Ryan, he won 119 games After he was 35.. Do you think he might have on something??

Why does Shill have a bug up his B*** against anything Yankees, Is he upset we didn't make the trade for him??

Hank is right Prior just doesn't fit.

Minnesota seems like they will take the lesser deal, just so WE don't get Santana. Why does is seem like everyone has a **** vendetta against the Yanks? Freaking jealousy......

I dont think minnesota will make the deal with boston if the sox do not include ellsbury along with lester. It will just be a dumb deal as the Yanks are offering both a major league Center fielder and an major league pitcher along with two other promising prospects. It just wouldnt make sense for them to make the deal with the sox therefore i do not see it happening. Unless it just comes down to them not wanting santana to pitch for the Yanks.....

C'mon now, let's be objective here. Lester is every bit the prospect that Kennedy & Hughes are, except with more success above AAA. Masterson appears as "can't miss" as either Hughes or Kennedy as well.

Vendetta against the Yanks? Jelousy? So the Twins want to give Santana to the team that has won two of the last four World Series instead of the team who hasn't played in the World Series since '03 or won since 2000, not to mention the fact that if the Yankees get Santana their starters still may not be as good as the Red Sox. Makes perfect sense.

http://mikemac.mlblogs.com

As some of you know, I'm not that big on getting Santana at this point in time, but I must agree with those that say we are getting ripped off.

How is Boston the front runners with that package? Melky > Crisp, and Hughes > Lester. Kennedy and Lester may be on more equal footing, but still. Its like the Twins just don't want Santana in the Bronx, which is puzzling, because its the BoSox that have been winning the WS lately, not us. So what would the Twins want to make them stronger instead of us? It doesn't make sense...

If we don't get Santana it won't be because Minn accepted the best off they could for him. Cabrera has a much higher ceiling. Already hitting in the upper .270's and has learned patience at the plate. Crisp had two good seasons with Cleveland and that's it. He hasn't even come close in the past two.
Melky's 5 years younger.

Hughes is widely regarded as one of the absolute TOP pitching prospects in the league as has the same postseason record as Lester does.

Michael,
Why then are the Yankees still referred to as the "Evil Empire"? you're right, we haven't been to the WS since '03. But we're still hated. Go figure.

omg i love the yankees so much, KEEP HUGHES - JOBA - KENNEDY!!!

Screw Minny and Santana, but seriously we don't need him. Lets continue the youth movement. If Wang, phil, joba, and ian are in our rotation for the next 10 years, we'll win about 15 (yea thats right.. 15) world series'!!!!

Haha I'm with you Corshep. I'm far too proud of our homegrown guns to just throw them away, even if it is for Santana.

Michael,

The BoSox are still considered the loveable underdog's and The Yanks are still the most hated team in America, outside of their fanbase. Why do you think I'm so bent about A Red Sox executive running this Steroid investigation? Very convenient that He concentrated his investigation in NEW YORK. Also, very convenient that ESPN barely covers any other athletes mentioned in the report, but spends 30 minutes talking about the past and present Yankees on the list, and then 2 hours talking about Clemens. The media was waiting for something to smear all over the great traditions of the Yankees, and now they've got it. Additionally, Lester does NOT project as high as Hughes, that is just not true. If Minnesota takes that Crisp deal for Johan, they are doing it out of spite to the Yankees. It is a no brainer that we are offering the most compelling package.

Thank God!!! Yanks have an outside chance of trading away their futuer. That's great news, cool with me!!! Who cares why Minnesota would trade Santana to the Suks for an inferior package, just as long as boston is throwing away its future.

I dont think the Yankees would be throwing away their future if they made a Santana deal with Kennedy, Melky and some lower prospects. As we have seen the farm system if chalked full of RHP, some good others not so much, but giving one of the Big Three away isn't throwing away our future. Santana is not old, hes not as young but 29 is still not old, and by the time that it is time for him to hang 'em up we'll definitly have developed another prospect to be MLB ready. Will he be as good as Kennedy, nobody can tell. Kennedy could be a bust (I really do not think Hughes will be because he was the #1 prospect in all of baseball and that is a fact not an opinion.) Hughes is better than Lester, better than Bucholtz, better than Joba and better than Kennedy. If the deal was Hughes Kennedy Melky etc., I say no flippin way, but it's not and as much as I'd love to see homegrown tallant smoke the Bo-suchs I wouldn't be against seeing a rotation of Santana, Wang, Pettite, Hughes, Joba. That rotation is far better than what Boston will mach out to defend their championship. Without Santana Boston has as many holes in their rotation as we do, Beckett is nasty but the rest of that rotation falls off the table dramatically, unless Dice-K steps up hes a #4 pitcher throwing in a #2 spot, Schillin won 9 games, Wakefield benefitted from a good offense (as did some Yankee pitchers throughout the season) but has a 4.76 ERA, they're just as vonerable as we are. It may take a year or two for the Big 3 to develop but they have a much higher ceiling than Boston's three top pitching prospects, but if we were to get Santana for Kennedy, Melky etc. we would have to hit the market (which is bone dry) for a CF and that is what is unappealing about the Santana trade to me, not losing Kennedy even though I think he has true potential to be a star very soon.

I do not want to trade Hughes at all. I van live with Kennedy leaving in a Santana trade, but the lack of a viable replacement for Melky holds me back from that trade.

I think we'll still have a better rotation than Boston without Santana. Hughes will have his velocity back, Joba is nasty, and we've seen no reason to doubt Kennedy yet. Kennedy has been consistently lights out in the minors, and so far, pretty impressive in the majors as well.

Boston!!! Ugh they frustrate me!! They don’t need Santana! They just want us to hike up our price. You know like in auctions when your betting on something and someone keeps going higher with no interest or need for the object…they just don’t want to lose and they want us to hike up our package by possible including another prospect. I think we could still do fine without Johan, but god Boston!!!

I think Boston's origional intent was to hike up the price never expecting their medocre deal to actually be considered, but if they can pull the trigger for Santana for so cheap (not including Bucholtz or Elsburry) than they will not hesitate. I agree with jlemoine, Hughes is untouchabe and will have the velositty back that was lost when he lost his ability to realy drive his fastball with his legs after his injury. And I don't doubt Kennedy at all, he has not given me or anyone else any reason to, comparing his stats to Bucholtz's (who gets a lot of hype outside of the NY, Boston circles) they're the same numbers only Bucholtz has a no-no. Their ERAs are the same (very low) Bucholtz went 3-1 in 4 apperances and Kennedy went 1-0 in 3 apperances so their both small samples. It'll be exciting to see these two teams go at it without Santana in the mix, that's what I'm pulling for.

Also I'm getting a HUghes jersey for Christmas so he better not be traded or I'll be pissed.

Seriously guys, stop bringing Nolan into this steroid stuff. He did NOT take anything!

Except his Advil, and there's no trouble with that!

Hughes rules. You better believe that if he gets traded (which he better NOT!) I'm getting his jersey, and I'll even wear it to the Stadium! :>)

I agree, everything about this trade is a crapshoot. How will Kennedy/Hughes perform down the road whether it be with the Yanks or Twins? How will Santana perform if he joins the Yanks? Will he be able to stay healthy? How long will Santana really be an effective pitcher for? Etc. I can live with dealing away Kennedy, I don't think he will be more than a No.3 pitcher so he can be more replaceable, beside the Twins want Hughes more than Kennedy. If things go like they should, and Kennedy pitches like many think he can, he could probably wind up with close to 250 wins in the next 15 years (obviously you can't hold me to any of these numbers). If the Yanks trade Hughes, the Yanks could poissbliy lose out on more wins down the road over the course of 15-20 years. So this team could possibly losing out on hundreds of wins in the future while Santana most likely has 5-10 years left as an effective pitcher at 29. I still say having him guarantees nothing especially if he goes to the Suks who are an aging team while the Yanks will most likely be getting younger, so the Suks will not be as good as they are right now for much longer as they will have to start turning over the roster due to age. Some of those players may already be feeling their age right now. It's a team that wins championships not a player who pitches every fifth day.

Also who would we replace Cabrera with in center? The Yanks are short on major league-ready players in the minors, and most likely one of the two other players they will deal are Tabata or Jackson, two of the more talented outfielders in the Yankee system. The Yanks could always trade for another player, but that would mean trading away more of their future, all of this because of one player. Don't forget Cabrera is still learning, and developing at the major league level so we still don't know how good he can truly be.

Trading away the future for one player? Yes. It's a crapshoot, but I would be willing not to pull the trigger on that deal based on the potential payoff I would be getting over the next 15-20 years (hundreds of wins from Hughes & Kennedy?), and who knows what from Cabrera over the same time period, as compared to 5-10 years from Santana.

Lets all remember our most signifgant and consistent issue last season, pitching all around.The consistency,health, performance of the entire staff was our largest vulnerability.FACT
The team has done very little to address that vulnerability even with the few moves made to bolster our relief staff. FACT

It appears we let Vizcaino go, one member of last years relief staff with promise.FACT

Dropped out of the Haren race for financial reasons.FACT

Someone tell me how a rotation made of competent, proven #2,#3 starters (Pettite,Wang in my view) and an inconsistent aging veteran in Mussina and 2 young prospects that are unproven for the long haul as a starter can offer any immediate resolution to this vulnerablity?

Lets get on with what needs to be done.Do the deal with the Twins if it means giving up Melky, Hughes AND/or Kennedy .Deal Matsui for salary and roster room and go get a center fielder or move Bobby A to center with speed and arm and go get a right fielder as there are more options there on the market.Keep Joba right where he is as the set up man for Mariano and prep him to be the next Mariano when he retires. Joba doesn't have the pitch diversity to be a starter. Now we have a great #! in Johan LHP),as good as they get #2#3 in Pettite (LHP)/Wang (RHP),Musina as #4(RHP) and the best of the remaining?many top prospects we have to round out with a 5th starter.Once that deal is out of the way we can focus on finishing our relief needs but w/o a pure #1 we will watch Detroit ( no one seems to mention them!!) and Boston dominate. Doesn't sound like the NYY I know.DO THE DEAL.

First of all, I have to ask you guys, when are we going to stop letting other teams dictate what we do in the offseason? When are we going to stop with the "win now" attitude? It has only gotten this organization in trouble.
Again, Santana guarantees nothing!! You guys do the math. Would you guys deal away pitchers who could potentially win hundreds of games for this organization over the next 15-20 years plus a starting a young starting CF who we would have to trade more prospects for just to replace him making the Santana deal more expensive? or would you be willing to take a chance on what we have?

Beside the pitching issues deal with the pen more than the starting rotation.

Couldn't have said it better myself, Matt. I think you're right on target, its a crapshoot either way, but I would be more willing to take my chances with the big 3, cabrera, and our future outfielders like tabata, jackson, and gardner.

Keep the youth movement going Cashman. The sox are getting older for the most part, while we are getting younger for the most part. If we keep the big 3, we will have the most dominant, not to mention probably one of the youngest, rotation in the majors in 2-3 years. I'm looking forward to the championships already.

Oh, and Bill, I'm getting a Cano jersey for xmas to be safe haha

rmchiusa... just when i'm all happy we agree.. you make that post lol.

First off: What has trading away young talent done in the past decade?? Nothing but give us shiiity players that waste money and don't live up to their rep. I can't believe you'd give Kennedy and Hughes!!! Thats absurd!!

Second: Abreu, yes have a gun, but is a horrible defensively. Whenever a ball is hit towards the wall he quivers and starts to cry when he hits that warning track. He would shat his pants in center.

Third: Joba doesn't have the pitch selection to be a starter?!?! He has a rediculous curveball that he didn't unleash because he was being forced to be a reliever. He threw it twice on 1-2 counts to Boston... and whattaya know, 2 swinging k's. He also has a change-up he didn't throw. 3 nasty pitches and 1 above average pitch...... he's made to be a starter - would be a waste of talent to keep him to fastball and slider.

lol one thing i agree is that detroit is gonna kick ***. w/e tho

I already have a Pettitte jersey. I am gonna get a Clemens jersey for christmas.

WHAT IS CANO'S CONTRACT SITUATION? 1 YEAR DEAL?

Good question bpark. I haven't heard anything about that yet. Bryan, do you know whats going on there? And with Wang for that matter?

Like it or not, the "win now" attitude has been a long standing strategy for the NYY org. The fortunate part is the leadership appears to be shifting to a more longer term approach but the lingering strategy of win now still is alive and well within both a segment of the fan base/press as they/we are relentless and unforgiving when the team/players hit a rocky stretch. We want our cake and eat it as well. When the fan base and the media align with a longer term view, than we will enjoy/maintain success in the mid-longer term and should exhibit more patience as the new strategy unfolds,prospects develop,make mistakes and improve concurrently for the long term.

The Yankees were required to tender contracts to their arbitration-eligible players -- Betemit, Bruney, Cano and Wang -- by Dec. 12.

Other related dates:

January 5-15, 2008

Salary arbitration filing. CBA, Article VI (F) (5).

January 18, 2008

Exchange of salary arbitration figures between MLB Labor Relations Committee and MLB Players Association.

February 1-21, 2008

Salary arbitration hearings. CBA, Article VI (F) (5).

Thanks Bryan, sounds like a TBD situation.

Hank Brenner seems to be doing interviews with every paper on Santana. Wouldn't this be tampering?

I only brought up Nolan Ryan's name as an analysis. Everyone is say Roger got better after age 35, Well, is it then possible he also did it legally?? I do understand he has thru hearsay received shots and yes, there are the checks!! but before he is condemned by the media, He should at least be given the shadow of doubt.
Sorry, I didn't mean to get back on "that" subject again but I thought it may have some merit.

I'm sitting here during lunch reading blogs and drinking my Pepsi when I read Abreu in CF. ***? Thanks for making my drink explode out of my nostrils. That was a joke right? He can't even play a decent RF. The only thing he has is a strong-not accurate arm. The Yanks really need to keep Melky in CF. The bottom line is there isn't anyone better than him available. What's up w/ the bullpen? We basically traded Viz for Hawkins, we lost Joba to starter, & we traded Clippard for Wehadababyitsaboy. Is that it? This team is worse than last season's. Mahay just signed w/ KC I believe. There goes another reliever-gone.

Censored was W_T_F. Another thing, why is Schilling jocking Clemens? What did he take to recover so quickly from that Achilles Tendon surgery? Did Beeyatchell forget the ketchup on the sock?

I wouldn't say that our team is worse than last year at all. We have a ton of young guys that can fight for bullpen spots have will have more seasoning, some of which already have a little bit of major league experience. Veras appears to be lights out in the winter league, and Ohlendorf is pretty good as well.

The guy we got from Clippard has had success in the minors, and in the majors, even though he only pitches a few innings up there.

This is still the biggest weakness on our team in my opinion (followed by first base), but to say it is worse than last year, I think is inaccurate. Vizcaino was very inconsistent last year. Hopefully Hawkins will be a bit more stable.

If our starting rotation can hold up health wise, the bullpen won't be as taxed as it was last year. And as long as Mussina doesn't tank, Kennedy will be in the pen as long relief. Even if he starts in AAA, I can see him as a bullpen callup/spot starter if Moose can't handle hitters anymore or if someone gets injured.

Veras lights out against minor leaguers and sky lights against major leaguers.

Let's say Kennedy is the long reliever, who are the spcialists? Hawkins as set up? Farnsworth to intentionally walk the #8 batter to get to the #9? You are relying on a bunch of frosh-soph guys with little major league experience. This team is worse than last year's ie. bullpen, bench, & 1B.

Juan Pierre? All interested teams want LA to pay part of his salary. Dodgers want Mussina. Let's talk trade.

We're also forgetting one major aspect of last years team that is gone. Joe Torre, I loved him but he threw the arms off of every decent pitcher we've had since our last champisonship just to make the playoffs. I think Joe G. will manage the team and the game better and will get the most out of our staff. He had to deal with a very young team and a young starter, Dontrelle, and they vastly overachieved ( i know they were sub .500, but they were supposed to be in the basement of that division). I shat my pants every time Viz came into a game, he was worthless as wel as Farnsworth so we give another eh picther a chance to be an improvement to Viz, Hawkens was not bad for Colorado, and I don't see him as a downgrade to Viz. Farnsworth is garbage and has been since becoming a Yankee. The young guns showed a lot of promise at times last year, in winter ball etc. and with that kind of promise you can catch lightning in a bottle.

Edwar has a great changeup and if he can mature a little bit to face MLB pitchers I can see him doing fine. I think Kennedy will be in AAA, unless I'm mistaken, but I'd love to see him in the BP if he can handle the change. If not maybe Moose would be best served as the long man and I can see that going well as he'll get more rest between outings (hopefuly) and the outings will be shorter. The off season is not over yet and we can still make a move for someone to fill a void in the BP, there are a few people we've talked about before that could still be had for the right deal if the Yanks priortized the BP over Santana.

The Yanks have also signed a few players to the bench Green etc. who could be solid, Betemit is a very capable bench player, but if we dont go after BP help can we plaease address the 1B issue? I dont want to see a nother friggen platoon, that ****** **** last season.

I don't think the Yanks should trade for Santana with Melky, Hughes, and possibly Matsui. Melky has the arm that I think the Yankees have in some ways lacked over the years. He can gun down runners with precesion. Matsui is basicly one of the unsung staples of the NY club, and Hughes could be a huge star in the future. If the Yanks want Johan that bad, wait until the offseason and play bidding wars. Cashman should just remember what happened to ex prospects Jay Buhner and Fred McGriff after they were traded

Plus Santana dosen't have a great playoff record.

on the same token niether does Wang, but I agree there are more pressing issues, and we can win a bidding war it'd just be scary because so could Boston.

The Yanks only worry if they were to enter a bidding war in the offseason would be a team outbidding Santana in terms of years. Also, MLB.com reported ythe Yanks arent after Prior anymore

Why *** players should not be in the World Series for a long, long time:

From MLB.com. . .

The World Series baseball is in Hattiesburg. At least what is left of it is. "My dog ate it," said Red Sox closer Jonathan Papelbon, who has a home in the Canebrake subdivision. "He plays with baseballs like they are his toys. His name is Boss. He jumped up one day on the counter and snatched it. He likes rawhide. He tore that thing to pieces. Nobody knows that. I'll keep what's left of it."

The funny thing is Sox fans hate Doug M (I'm not going after his last name) because of the ball scandall but think it's funny that Pap's dog ate it.

As far as Roger goes you can't compare him to Nolan. Nolan was steady his whole career, Roger on the other hand was good until his last few years in Boston where he just was average at best. As far as the comment about Schilling and him recovering from his ankle injury it almost ended his career. The sock had blood on it not ketchup. That’s a pretty dumb statement to make. He still hasn't had a good year since his injury. I read some where on this post that while the Yankees are getting younger, the red sox are getting older. That peaked my curiosity and according to the 40 man rosters from both teams this is what I found out.
Yankees team age-27.4

Line-up-30.7

P(including starting)-27.4

SP-28.6

Catchers-29.7

Infield-27.3

outfield30.4

Red sox team age is-26.8

Line-up- 30.6

P(including starters)-29.5

SP-31.8

Catchers-28

Infield-27.7

Outfield 28.5

Yeah -- Sox fans are special.

The reasson why sox fans were mad at Doug is because that ball was historic to the fans. It marked the end of heart break for all sox fans.

I guess the true test of who will have the upper hand over the next several years between the RedSuchs and Yanks is who has the better minor league system. I'm sure they think there's is better than ours, and vice versa, but we'll see.

Yo guys, just read a great article written by former CFer Doug Glanville on ESPN:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3162061

what did doug do to the ball?

Michael, you are right. Those of you who think that the package the Yankees are offering Minnesota is much better than Boston's package of Lester, Crisp, Masterson and Lowrie just do not know a lot about the SOx farm system. Simply put, Lester is a winner. He has done nothing but win since debuting in the big leagues, and he could develop into a No. 2 or No. 3 caliber starter, much like Kennedy. Lowrie is every but as promising as Dustin Pedroia. He has a chance to be Minnesota's starting shortstop or second baseman if he is in the trade. Boston thinks so highly of Masterson that he has surpassed Michael Bowden, who is a solid pitching prospect himself. It would be a win-win situation for the Sox and the Twins if they make this deal. Ditto for the Yankees if the Twins choose their proposed package.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

the ball that doug had is now in the baseball hall of fame

That said, as a Sox fan, I would be overjoyed if they could get Santana without surrendering Ellsbury or Buchholz. I would still be happy about the deal is either Ellsbury or Buchholz were included, but not both. The Sox have a deep farm system, and it is much easier to find a productive center fielder than it is a dominating ace who would be the No. 2 guy in Boston. If the Yankees dealt Hughes and Cabrera along with a couple prospects, I wouldn't think that would hurt the Yankees future. The whole idea of having a deep farm system is to plug holes with homegrown talent AND have the necessary trading chips to acquire a difference-making young veteran.

Jeff, I agree with kennedy and lester being on equal footing, but the rest of thepackage doesn't match up as well In my eyes. The Twins badly need a CF and the two packages revolve around CF and a SP, and Melky is far better than Coco Crisp. I can't make a comparison to Elsburry because I just havn't seen him enough so I'll assume (probably rightfully so) that they are also on equal footing. Outside of the Trifecta Horne is highly regarded in te Yanks system and maybe because I'm not a Sox fan but I've never heard of the last two prospects in their deal. But as is, Melky is superior to Coco with more upsode and that is what makes (in my basic opinion) the Yankee deal as is better than te Sox del as is.

Actually (this coming from a huge Melky Cabrera fan), Ellsbury is way better than Melky. That kid is a stud. The BoSox would be well advised to hole on to him for the forseeable future.

Forgive my lack of knowledge about the farm system and the quality of players in there and from there let me make that point first.

It appears certain that whatever the outcome of trying to get Santana the opinion is going to be divided. From comments made by owners and managers of late they are divided as well. This speaks volumes for the opinion of the players being considered for trade. They all obviously have outstanding ability as well as potential the key word here being potential. Waht is certain the team truly suffered from a lack of strength in the pitching area mainly starters. Yes Santana would appear to be a priority but it is a tremendous gamble to give up players of the calibre of Kennedy or Hughes or both along with Cabrera and Horne. I have gone back and forth as to my opinion and have finally settled that they keep who they have and go with them. If no success comes then bid for Santa or is it Santa at the end of 2008.

But as stated no matter which way they go opinions will remain divided.From what I saw from very much afar Hughes Kennedy Chamberlain will all succeed and will only IMPROVE which is a scary thought for other teams. No wonder the Red Sox are playing the game to try and force them to give these players up.

Merry XMAS to all

hughes, kennedy and chamberlain are very good players the sox have a lot of good pitchers as well in their farm. buchholz already has a no hitter, Masterson is extremly good, so isnt Bowden then you add Lester so we are just as deep with pitching in our farm as NY

Jeff-

First of all, the Yanks don't have a deep farm system. It is long on pitching talent, but short on position players. The Yanks really don't have a player close to being ready to take his place in the majors. One of the two closest players ( Tabata, and Jackson) will likely be traded away in the same deal. Like I said, if the Yanks can't find a replacement for him they will have to trade away more prospects for a CF making the trade more costly.

The Yanks should stay with prospects they know have the potential to produce big time over the next 15-20 years rather than trade for one pitcher (albeit a great one) and hope for the best.

THe "win now" attitude is a mistake, and should be on the way out in terms of the front office, and fans. IT has meant nothing but failure. A trade for Santana could possibly mean the loss of more than 4 prospects in the future just because this wants to get back to the WS which he does not guarantee.

Matt, I agree, I said that B4. We have some really good young pitchers on the farm. Position players are still a year or 2 away, and we just don't have enough depth to trade any of those we do have.
As you say if we lose Melky without another CF to replace him could be devastating to our farm system. Go with what we have now. Of course the BP must be shored up, and settling in at 1B, Thats what spring training is for, to find and get help where needed.

If anything, this team needs to trade for a first baseman soon rather than a pitcher.

Are there any 1B that could be realistically gotten via trade,Texiera is a year away of FA but was a big hit, anyone else?

A trade for Santana would definitely hurt our future...and even our present, since we don't have a replacement for Melky...

As far as the Santana trade goes, here's how I'd rank the pitching prospects involved:

Hughes < Buchholz < Kennedy < Lester < Masterson < Horne

A couple comments: Hughes and Buchholz are very similar, but Hughes is 2 years younger. Same comparison with Masterson and Horne. Kennedy's performance last year was as good as Joba's, but noone seems to notice.

In general, it seems that Lester and Ellsbury are regarded very highly because they performed well in the World Series (and also September for Ellsbury), which is import but too me it shouldn't outweigh their mediocre performances for the entire season or multiple seasons.

Don't see any1B that Yanks could get in trade, maybe trade for a 1B prospect like a Cory Dunlap who is rated as the #19 prospect in the Dodgers organization for Mike Mussina, and have Kennedy replace Mussina in rotation,but only if Dodgers are interested in acquiring Mussina. Dunlap is a few years away so Yanks may have to go with what it has(the thought of that makes me sick) at the ML level or sign a FA down the road. The Yanks could also go with Juan Miranda, but he also is a few years away. Other than that the Yanks have no real 1B prospect in the system. Obviously other teams would want one of the higher-end pitching prospects in the Yanks system if they are going to give up a good 1B. I wouldn't mind trading Mussina for a 1B.

cjpenny u meant all >'s right??

haha i think so corshep...I don't think Horne is the best pitcher on that list.

oops... yes, they should all be >

I'd be inclined to agree with you're list though cjpenny. The only thing I might add, is perhaps Kennedy and Lester are on more equal footing.

I know he's not on the list because he won't be traded for Santana, but we have another pitcher that trumps all of Boston's pitching prospects of course...Joba!

Hey guys, what's up. Wow, seems like I've missed a lot. Just got back from playing ball on the road trips. My stance on Santana really hasn't changed. It'd be great to have him, but it seems like the Twins are really trying screw us in the butt. They want two of our big three and our CF, meanwhile they'd accept a deal of Lester( 24 )/Coco ( 28 )compared to Hughes ( 21, way better than Lester ) and Cabrera ( 23, hasn't played a full ML season yet but seems to be coveted in most trades anyway ) I really don't know what the dillio is, if we don't offer up Kenedy or Horne or Jackson, Cabrera and Hughes don't seem like enough. Looks like they're trying to rip us off. Anyway, we don't need this guy. It would be icing on the cake to have him, but we already have the cake. At the end of the day, it's Minny's choice of who gets Santana. Boston or New York or... the Angels, Bill Smith holds the card in his hand. All I know is that he's a **** wad if he thinks Boston's package is better than ours, any way you put it.

I stopped by the Twins blog and the fans there feel the same way, they think Boston's package is " not enough " " totally bogus " and they'd much rather Cabrera and Hughes, they say Lester and Coco is not enough, and that Bucholz with Ellsbury is the only deal that would seem comparable to ours. They also talked about Mariners' CF Brandon Jones, Pitcher Brandon Morrow is also what they covet and deem " comparable " to our package.

Yeah ok guy. I believe Schillings sock had blood on it like I believe the dog ate the World Series ball. I guess I'm pretty dumb.

A dog ate the world series ball?

Knowing Papelbon, maybe he did let his dog eat it. The guy has a few loose screws.

Hey I think we should keep the youth and let Boston pay all that for Santana, but if the Yankees really want Santana let them have Kyle Farnsworth and 1 pitcher and Shelly Duncan. We keep our center fielder and they can have 2 pitchers and a homerun hitter.

Really just kidding about Shelly Duncan. Let's keep our youth and center fielder and beat Boston with what they think can't.

Morning Peoples!

The thing about Papelbon 'letting' his dog eat the ball is that he (and any dog owner) knows that dogs do love rawhide.

I mean sheesh, I haven't owned a dog since my teenage years but my roommate has had dogs for years, mainly Rotts but he also had a Sharpei as well. I've seen plenty of shoes and whatnot get tore up. Why that ball wouldn't even be encased in glass or plastic is just ridiculous. I had my '96 WS Champion team signed ball encased in plastic from the moment I got it and I'm just a FAN. The sentimentality of that ball had to mean more to someone playing on the team. I find it completely silly to have been sitting on a mantle a few feet off the ground and apparently not encased whatsoever.

knut you know why, cause it's a f..n lie

if it's true, imo the guy has no respect

good morning to u 2, and a nice weekend

Something that is seriously overlooked in the Hughes for Santana deal. Santana is a lefty, Hughes is a righty. Pettitte's claim that he can pitch another 10 years aside, he represents our ONLY southpaw in the rotation. And a cursory look at the farm shows that while we have a solid system right now, EVERY top hill prospect is right handed. Getting Santana means that we have that show stopper lefty in the rotation for many many many years (wouldn't be surprised if he got 6). Surround him with Pettite for a few years at least and Wang, Joba and Kennedy for years to come and THAT is a formidable staff. I don't think that this issue can be ignored.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3164585

Congress is treating everyone named as guilty because they didn't cooperate with the investigation. Voluntary appearance welcome but considered guilty.

Sounds like a perjury TRAP. Assuming players named as guilty, then they go under oath and deny use.

Golf,

That's the only reason why Santana is still even a discussion for me. It's obvious that we have exactly 0 minor league southpaws in the system aside from back to back to back to back Wright. I say let the Santana deal fall through the cracks though. We can still get Sabathia next year if Johan gets traded. We could get Sabathia AND Johan, if he doesn't, for the 2009 season. Can you guys imagine acquiring CC Sabathia, Johan Santana, and Mark Teixera in one off-season? LOLlyskates!

Chaz's 2009 starting rotation:

Santana

Wang

Sabathia

Hughes

Chamberlain

LOL, Pettite and Kennedy in long relief? ****, I don't know....

I think I would seriously cream my pants if that was our 2009 rotation Chaz hahaha.

Golf, you're observation is indeed well founded. I've written off the Santana trade time and time again, but that seems to be the one kink in my "keep the youth" argument. Aside from Chase Wright, who will probably not turn into a major league caliber pitcher for our team anyway, we don't have even a decent lefty.

I suppose we could gamble by not getting Johan, and try for trade/free agency next year. Maybe we can get Scott Kazmir in a year or two? Oh boy would that be sick!

rolfcopter chaz!

yea i saw the 2009 free agency list on mlbtraderumors.com and looks a lot better than this year.. But you know names like Manny, Vlad, K-Rod, CC.. etc will not hit free agency and will be extended before.

Shepherd's (imagine this hah) 2009 Rotation:

Santana

CC

Wang

Lackey

Hughes

Chamberlain

Kennedy

!!!!!!!!!!!7 player rotation!!!!!!!!!All complete games/8innings pitches so no needs for garbage relievers!!!!!!!!!

Pettitte > everyone there except Santana.

Bpark, we know that. Just playing with names.

wait no i want this rotation:

Shepherd (f'in staff ace)

Chaz (the stopper even tho shep won't lose)

Bpark

Jlemoine

Rcngolf

then guys like pettitte and wang long relief. Trade hughes, joba, kennedy for gordon and stanton. HELLO WORLD SERIES

All Time Rotation:

Koufax

Ford

Paige

Spahn

Ryan

Shep,
You aint the staff ace, dude. My 70 mph fastball and 69 mph changeup would put me at 25 wins for the season.

whatever man i got this 25 mph pitch that i call "The Gravitron".. only two pitches necessary for a swinging K

I can throw a wicked 12 foot arc.

Put me in, coach!

and put seaver in that rotation

All time lineup:

Cobb 2B

Williams RF

Mantle LF

Ruth DH

Mays CF

Gehrig 1B

Rose 3B

Wagner SS

Berra C

LOL a lineup where Honus Wagner hits in the 8 hole. Freaking sick.

That's the joy of making all time lineups. You can make 10 more that are just as good, never using the same name twice.

the "best minor league team in baseball" just wants the best deal for santanna. remember, santanna in ny is a short-term huge gain, but the better strategy would be to build from within,make necessary big dollar aquisitions without selling the future and getting santanna may be just that. right now boston has done a much better job than ny at developing talent as well as trading for or signing big $ free agents as neccessary. for the last decade ny has sold the farm for big money players which help in the short term but destroy the farm and the future.

You people are crazy if you think the Twins or any other team, expecially a small market team, would make a deal because of spite; they'll take the package that they feel is best, period.

Lester IS every bit the prospect that Hughes is, and comparing their first 13 major league starts, out performed Hughes. Baseball America claims Lester "has the stuff to be a front line starter"; not a middle of the rotation guy. Objectivity is a wonderful thing, using facts and stats come in handy too.

The (bogus) Mitchell Report featured Yankee players because the feds caught a trainer associated with Yankee players, duh.

Thanks for playing Michael. No one is saying the report is "bogus". It's just not "OBJECTIVE" as you like to say. When a Red Sox executive is running the investigation, and he "catches" 1 trainer in 2 (TWO!) years of searching, and he happens to work in New York, it looks really fishy. Don't come in here thinking your Red Sox are a pristine club, devoid of PED users, duh. Don't be so freaking naive.

Your boy Lester, does not project as high as Hughes, either. Maybe better now, but he'll hit his ceiling alot faster.

and FACT, Hughes was the #1 prospect in all of baseball, I'm pretty sure Lester could never say that. This just makes me want to keep Hughes even more so he can prove Suchs fans that he's a real deal with his velosity back and some life to his pitches again.

Agreed with Bill and Chaz. Hughes is better then Lester. Hughes didn't perform as well due to injury, he didn't have his best stuff all season (except from the game he got the injury, where he took a no-no into the 7th...)

Darn Chaz! 70 MPH fastball? Cmon, you gotta be better than that. I don't even pitch, but I think I throw 80-90 mph, then I goty a curve workin and a nice splitter. Those are my primary pitches. Secondaries are two-seam fb, slider, knucklecurve, changeup. As much as I love pitching, I love hitting, I guess I'm gonna have to choose my side of the diamond sooner or later, but I'll have fun with both for now, :P

Is i legal to put a pitcher in the lineup as a DH on days that he doesn't pitch?

Maybe you can have your cake and eat bdsouth!

Have a lot of time...for the next wk so...to look up things and i found that Hughes is better than Lester. Kennedy is just as good, if not a little better.

If the Yankees get Santana, they'll have the best pitching staff in the MLB. If they don't get him their pitching will be soft again and have no depth. Hughes and Kennedy have nowhere near the lights out capability that Santana has. It will definitely pay for the Yankees to include both Hughes and Kennedy in a deal for Santana. Their farm system is full of blue chip pitching prospects and they can afford to trade both of them for the best pitcher in baseball, hands down, who is still very young at 28. They may be lights out in two or three years but we can't wait that long. We've got to win it all now after 7 straight years of dismal failures, every year of this century and millennium. With a one-two punch of Santana and Pettitte and possibly a lights out setup man acquired in Ron Mahay or Damaso Marte, the Yankees pitching could be untouchable. Then with the free agent signings of Corey Patterson or Mike Cameron and a full time first baseman who can hit with power and is great defensively, either Sean Casey or Ryan Klesko, the Yankees will be the odds on favorite to win it all and quickly dethrone the Bosox....The Yankees have plenty of money to spend. Their $23.8 million luxury tax is a drop in the bucket to a $1 billion franchise, the richest in baseball next to the Red Sox at $671 million.

And how can they not make the deal for Santana when the Twins have lowered their demands and want Hughes, Melky Cabrera, Alan Horne and Austin Jackson or Jose Tabata? They get to keep Ian Kennedy. Two unproven minor leaguers, Phil Hughes who hasn't developed yet and Melky who doesn't have much long ball potential, is prone to long slumps and can be easily replaced by signing either Corey Patterson or Mike Cameron. Hank Steinbrenner and Cashman have to be crazy not to make that trade for Santana, the best lefty since Sandy Koufax. How can they not take into account that he's a lefty as well which makes him doubly valuable? Having two top notch lefty starters in Pettitte and Santana is as good as gold and would easily make the Yankees favorites to win the WS.

The reason we dont make the trade is because Melky is a top tier defensive CF who has a batting average of .275 and is fast. Patterson hasn't seen a pitch he wouldnt swing at, remember how frustrating it was to see Soriano swing at balls the were 3 feet outside and over his head in big situations? He made up for it because he could drive the ball deep a lot, Patterson can't do that at all. Mike Cameron is worthless, he's a career .251 hitter, and you talk about power he averages 16 HR a season. I'll take Melky who hit 8 last season (who didn't play a full season) and is a superior fielder. The rotation we have now is not soft, the BP is weak but the rotation is strong and ask any knowledgable Sox fan and they don't like the ankee staff because it can, and many tink it will be very effective next year. Remember last year the Sox's rotation didn't look all that formidable, Dice-K was supposed to be the savior, Beckett came off a season where he gave up the most HR in the league, Wake and Schilling got a year orlder, and Pappelbaun was supposed to be in the rotation until spring. Let Santana stay in the Twin Cities, we'll win a bidding war with whoever comes out, because the Stadium is the best park for a dominant lefty pitcher, and lets throw our kids at the rest of the league. Even if we don't do as well this season, the Big three will have a full MLB season under their belts, it'll be more motivation to win the bidding war, but I don't think we'll have a bad season this year. People have said we're the 3rd best team in the AL East, that's simply not true. Why would you trade the #1 prospect in all of baseball away? If the deal was Kennedy ect ect than maybe, but we do not trade Hughes. He'll be a staff ace in a few years with or without Santana on the staff. Let's see him develop in the Yankee pinstripes and laugh at all those fans who were hoping we'd trade away Hughes, and the look on the Mini fans as Hughes dominates them in their park. That's what I'm looking forward to this season, having Hughes and Kennedy stick it to Bill Smith while we all laugh while we watch on tv, or for me and jlemone MLB TV up in VT where YES doesn't exist.