Hot Stove: The landscape changes

Yikes! This could be really bad....

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/11/red-sox-leading.html

Hate to be a pessimist, but if this happens and Andy doesn't come back....

I guess it all comes down to who you think has better prospects? Kennedy or Lester?

"I've always had the mind-set of coming up and playing for the Yankees," Hughes said. "I'd love to stay, but I understand at the same time that it's a business. There's not much you can do about it." -Phil Hughes

When you have players that love the Yankees and want to play their entire careers here AND they are incredible players...it's tough to let go.

Hughes

Chamberlain

Wang

Kennedy

Mussina(REPLACE with Haren)

It's not one of the big three we replace in a trade.

If the Sox get Santana and we get Haren..I like the promise of that young star staff. Yes, they have question marks or are unproven, but they will all improve together. I'd rather watch a bunch of guys who came through the program together, that LOVE the Yankees and that love to win in New York then bring in one guy for a ton of money that will replace the same position.

Let the Red Sox give up all their best young players. But if I was the Twins..WHY would you take Lester of Hughes? Hughes is way better.

why cant we just stick to these kids for now, meaning we win with them and we lose with them, but they will be loved, adored, and fans will have more jeters to look up to for wins.

i hat it when we get randy johnson's sheffield's, giambi's, mussina's and they they falter.

someone mentioned a few days ago, (maybe Matt or Chaz) that its been so long that WE have forgotten what the farm system is all about & how it works. Someone please tell me how the system works, i never followed the farm, cause I honestly thought: THE FARM SYSTEM WAS ONLY FOR TRADE BAIT, meaning all A, AA, AAA players were only for trading to other teams for 32+ yr old veterans, that's how it works right? with exception to jeter,cano,and very few others.

red sox have pitching and have WS wins (clean sweeps) imagine if they get Sanatana, then they would lead by 34.5 rather than 14.5 in early may/june. they would win so much, they would live like us in the late 90's.......

:(

beckett santana wakefeild dicek = papi,manny,youk,lowell can bat .150 1hr 6RBIS, and still sweep the world series again with those arms.

I remember posting something about how we've forgotten how the farm system works. Can't remember the specifics though.

If the season started tommorow, here's how our rotation would look.

Wang

Hughes

Chaimberlain

Kennedy

Mussina

Wang should be the best no.2 starter in baseball, but he isn't an ace.

Hughes isn't ready for the 2 spot yet, give him time.

Chaimberlain had an outstanding month as a reliever. Good- but this does not automaticly make him a top of the line starter.

The fact is,we need to get Santana to be sure of postseason in 2008. Or we could sit pat, see how things work out, and we might have an outstanding rotation in 2010.

By which time Posada/Rivera/Jeter? will be aging, Matsui/Giambi/Damon/Abreu will be gone and our lineup may not be as great as todays.

I guess I'm saying I'm glad I'm not Brian Cashman right now.

You know what, if the sox want Santana then they could have him. yes, they will have the best all around team but we can still take those guys. Chaz and others, from reading your comments, you guys convinced me. I rather keep those 3 prospects rather than trade them. We may even try to trade for Haren w/o losing one of those 3.

I don't know why but I feel that lowell and youk are not going to repeat the numbers they had last year. Schilling is getting old and this could be the year where he struggles like Randy Johnson. Papi and Manny will be caught using steroids. Papelbon will try out for "Dancing with the Stars". Beckett will have a season ending-injury midway through the season. Santana's numbers will just be getting worse by each year. And players are going to figure out Dice-K stupid Gyro ball.

And if all this doesn't happen, we can still take them because we're the yankees and they're still the idiots.

Plus, in 3 years, Kennedy, Hughes, and Chamberlain will be the most dominant 3 pitchers in the league. Also Cano is going to have better numbers than A-rod, and will be the next Jackie robinson.

P.s. Sentinel is probably going to be running his mouth after I post this.

and lowell will be there giambi, and wakefeild will be their moose.

and manny will only play in 100 games, and youk will fall flat all year long. dicek will struggle like no other and tampa will be ahead in standings.

the orioles and bluejays will OWN the bloody foot-atire for all of 2008, while we win 110 games and all out starting pithcers win 22 games (5*22=110)

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Either way... just remember this. Even with that Rotation we still won the season series. Now I'm not such a homer that I would say that getting Santana almost assuredly tips those scales in Boston's favor, but, they'll still have to play the games and you never know.

Dice-K may not have as strong a second year as he did in his first since players will now be used to some things and have some film on him to review. Schilling is like our Mussina, occassionally good, often average. We've pummelled Wakefield of late too. Beckett I think was the only pitcher for the Sox to have the edge on us last year, we at least came out even with the rest, but more than likely bettered them.

Look at it this way... either way we're not looking that bad, either we grow up or we get the best pitcher in the game today, meanwhile if Boston nabs Johan, they'll pay the price for it and I still think we'll be just as competitive. Maybe we don't make the postseason this year with the rooks, but we setup the next 5 years given no freak happenstances to the youngsters.

Bryan,

Steven Jackson is not protected and will probably be gone.

i dont want to give fame to these kids as of yet, please give them a full year to pitch in their repective roles, then we can really acknowledge whats next for us.

remember, were "rebuilding" and yes, even in our rebuilding phase we look like contenders, thats very satisfying for me.

so going forward, we must take one season, more importanlty one month of the season at a time.

i would like to see them all 20 game winners, but this is what i think will suffice next year for the big 3

hughes 15 wins

joba 14 wins

kennedy 12 wins

41 wins, about 45% our our wins

thats a huge factor to have on your side, considering these numbers will be just a staging ground for several years....

I heard the A's would be interested in trading Joe Blaton, I googled his stats and they are...14-10 with a 3.40 era, I'd be interested in him also.

I'm inclined to take a "can't lose" stance on the current state of affairs. We can trade for Johan and win NOW, or not make a move, let the talent develop, and win LATER. Personally, I think we can do BOTH, if the Twins will take JUST Kennedy and Melky, along with another position-player-prospect. I would actually LIKE to be Cashman right now. Unless he goes utterly brain-dead and deals away ALL of our young talent, he's in a win-win situation. That's, of course, if the Yankee fan base is prepared to wait for the talent to develop.

Got to think the Twins would rather have Melky in CF over Crisp. Kennedy is just as attractive as Lester. Gonzales is close to Lowrie, maybe better on defense, but lesser on offense. And we certainly have arms on the farm to match or exceed Masterson.

We may pick up a chip for some of the excess pitching. Plus some single A prospects that the Twins may have their eye on and Santana could come to NY.

Sounds like the majority of bloggers on this site would be willing to take some lumps to let these kids get up to speed.

I like the idea of building a team around several slightly above average players rather than a team with a couple of top-level players and a bunch of hole-fillers. We seem to have won our most recent championships when our team really didn't have a "superstar". We had 25 guys that played hard, did things the right way (more or less...ahem, Strawberry and Doc), and respected and cared for one another.

Boston doesn't need to deal away prospects to improve a rotation that (on paper) is the best in the majors. They just won a title with what they already have. I just don't see the logic in trading away their future to improve an already awesome present.

Fix the bullpen. Even with Santana in Boston I still believe we can beat them and contend.

Andy Pettitte is really starting to get on my nerves, jeez, I have to know Andy are you coming back or not man, GOD! I haven't heard any news concerning Andy coming back or not, unless I just missed it.

I would rather have Haren than Blanton. Haren was pretty much lights out the first half of last season, and has better stuff than Blanton.

we had stars in the most recent championship wins, chuck no-luck-block,
scot brosius, and even jose can'steroid'eco

the real stars were oneil,jeter,davidjustice,bernie,posada,petitte,clemens,MO, and

but i see your point

I hear ya Matt, I would probably prefer Haren also, but Blaton would be a close second right?

From the A's staff? Yup.

Yeah, Matt I'd be interested in almost anybody on the A's staff, I wonder if Huston Street is available? Probably not but he would be a good addition to the bullpen.

Lowrie and Masterson are not in Boston's immediate future and Crisp is expendable. Then it's a swap of left-handed starters.

Also, the RSox tried to upgrade the best relief staff with Gagne last year.

jeterstar,

What do you think of the Yanks' chances of getting Santana after the Twinnies made that deal? You think that the Yanks will get him eventually or do you think as I do and won't get him at all?

Well Matt, I would rather wait and sign him when he was a free agent, because if he gets traded,and we have to give up guys like Phil or Joba, you know the Yanks' young arms, then what happens if Johan turns around and leaves cause the Yanks won't pay him what he wants that would be lame and too risky, I love Phil Hughes, and I don't want to see him go, Joba also.

Agree, disagree, with my Johan post Matt?

That is a great point, Jeterstar! WHAT IF, we get Johan, and then when it comes time to re-sign him, he leaves! Then we're out BOTH our young talent AND Santana. That is unthinkably bad.

It won't happen like that BECAUSE Santana has a No-trade clause that he won't waive until he gets the contract length and cash he wants.

I wish we could pull off these trades like a band-aid..RIGHT OFF! If were going to do something, do it now. I'm tired of speculating. I want to create my 08' video game roster already but have no clue how it will end up.

You do make agreat point jeterstar, it's ascenario I don't even want to think about. IF it did happen I could see Yankee fans tearing down the Yanks' house just to get at Crashman. I'm also with you on waiting for Santana to become a free agent, but with other teams targeting him I just don't think he will be around that long someone will suely get him in a deal. The Twins say they don't see Young as CF, but rather a LF, I just don't know about that. I just get the feeling it will now take two quality pitchers ( two from the starting rotation, or a high-end prospect plus a position player ) just to get Santana. If that's the case I say forget it, and maybe go after pitchers like Haren or Blanton. I'm not sure but aren't CC Sabathia, and Ben Sheets free agents after next season?

Well, I was talking about after his contract he gets in the trade expires. If he's dumb enough to waive his no trade without an extension, I don't want him anyway. LOL.

Anyone that buys an 08' Yankees calendar is a ***** FYI lol.

I wouldn't want Sheets. He's just too injury prone. He would be another Jake Peavey if he could figure out how to stay healthy. Speaking of injury prone starters......Mark Prior is on the trading block. How about Carl Pavano v2.0?

m*o*r*o*n

Sheets is way too injury-prone. Who knows, maybe the Yanks will find another legit starter from within the organization before then i.e. Steven White or Alan Horne.

I for sure would be interested in Danny Haren or Joe Blaton but I wonder what the A's would want? Like maybe a Melky C. type of player, what do you think Matt?

cashman

will not get santana unless he agrees to a lenghty contract, steinbrenner will not allow such a move, before he wears a NYY cap, they big monkeys will now exactly how long they gonna have him for sure.

if there is one thing about the steinbrenner's is that (whoever the GM is) they know their contracts business very well, infact they love giving lenghty fat contracts to them, JASON GARBAGAMBI, a yacht load of money for "X" numbers of years, casue he was MVP for the A's a couple of hundred years ago.

also the "sons" now control the empire with the "Don" now partially retired, (i sound like robert duvall) but anyways, after all these millionaries are driving the "bus"

please reply at the posada post (good for him) see ya'll there

At the most they may ask for Ian Kennedy, and a mid-level hitter. The A's will have to concetrate on their offense more on their pitching.

I know the A's need bats the most, that's why I was wondering if they would want Melky since he's still young and fairly cheap at least for now.

jeterstar,

It's a definite possibility. I wouldn't rull anything out. I would have to wonder how the A's see him in terms of how much of an impact he will have on the team's offense. Melky doesn't project more than a 15-20 HR 80-90 RBI guy. Is that going to be enough for the A's? They already have a few players like that.

Great point about Melky, Matt, I'm so sick of all the speculating, I wish I knew what was going to happen!!!

All this Melky trade talk and nobody wants Bernie back in center??? Haha JUST kidding.

Any chance the Yankees can bend the rules and have a 4 man outfield? Giambi can't play first anyways..so just have Matsui in left, Damon in left center, Bernie in right center and Abreu in Right..Sounds dynamite!

LOL. a rover? Nice. Is this beer league sofball? Good looking out, Yanks!

Matt, to your point that the A's already have a few "Melky-numbers" type players, I would love rather have a lineup with 9 guys that hit all .250 with 15 homers and 75 RBI's, than a lineup that has 2 guys that hit .330, 35, and 125 and 7 guys that stink up the place. Maybe we could get more "bang for our buck" with a deal to Oakland, and just forget Johan?

"The perceived early pole-sitters, the Yankees, also are adjusting their offer to reflect Wednesday night's transaction. Center fielder Melky Cabrera and a young pitcher still remain in the package, but now the Bombers may consider including both Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy to satisfy the Twins' growing need for arms." -This sounds awful..I hope a national league team gets Santana.

I hope the red sox get Santana and no it wont deplete our farm system

Haren, who went 15-9 with a 3.07 ERA last season, is signed to a modest contract that pays him $4 million next year, $5.5 million in 2009 and a team option for 2010 worth $6.75 million. -Add this up. He was on the A's as well, terrible team. If my math is correct, which I won't vouch for..One season of Santana= 3 years of Haren and he is 27. This way we don't have to lose 2 starting players and two prospects plus 150 million.. man that deal is sounding worse and worse the more I think about it. Did anyone watch Paul Byrd pitch? He ain't no Santana but he pitched well enough to win. I'd rather have 5 starting A level pitchers then 1 A+, 3 A and 1 B- pitcher.

If there is any truth to us being willing to deal 2 of our big 3 pitchers to Minny...........I will freaking detonate. Please, Cashman, do not be that stupid!

Yeah that is disturbing. I have to wonder, if that is true... wouldn't that suggest Hank has a bit of the love-fest his father does with Veterans?

I mean Giambi and Sheffield both negotiated with George... it's fine if Georgey wants to do that, it's his team but doesn't that seem to paint a not-so-bright picture for Cashman? Why would the owner HAVE to do the negotiating himself?

I don't know who I'd point to for the thought process on this... Hank or Brian?

Also, wouldn't it almost seem apparent that the Yanks were caving to pressure from a possible Boston signing to get the guy even if it's really a negative deal for us on the backend?

Hughes and Kennedy + what?!?

If we even consider that deal, we'd better leave it at those two.

Perhaps Hank has a bit of savvy too and this is all bunk?

I agree with whomever said it earlier... this hot-stove anticipation business is worse than watching us give up a lead for the third time in one game. :P

Here are some truths I came up with:

1. If the Red Sox acquire Santana, they will own... COMPLETELY OWN the Yankees ( along with the rest of the Major League teams) Beckett, Santana, Matsuzaka, Wakefield, Schilling... nuff said. They'll win 3 more WS easily.

2. It's getting harder and harder to acquire this guy, simply because the Twins have acquired their man in Delmon Young, regardless of what OF position he plays, they have their young OF, who says now that they can't acquire a vet to play CF by trade? ( Nathan come to mind? )

3. Our rotation is set well with the Big Three, if it weren't for Johan being on the market, nobody would be talking about the fact that they're unproven, and all this other stuff you can pick to complain about. We'd actually be saying, " Boy am I excited, Hughes, Kennedy, Joba, WE'RE SET! Santana's on the block " Uchh, these guys could fall apart with injuries, they might falter under pressure. Etc."

4. We need 'pen help more than we need an Ace. Imagine, Santana is acquired, our pen blows one of his gems and he suddenly becomes unhappy in N.Y., then we see this happen all over again.

5. Who says the Twins just can't keep him? FA next year.

So while you're at home hyped up with all the Santana sweepsteaks, jump off the cloud, simmer back down to reality, until the deal's done, which it's not, all of this is just a bunch a hoopla.

I don't mean to be a party pooper, more like the safety net.

Here are some truths I came up with:

1. If the Red Sox acquire Santana, they will own... COMPLETELY OWN the Yankees ( along with the rest of the Major League teams) Beckett, Santana, Matsuzaka, Wakefield, Schilling... nuff said. They'll win 3 more WS easily.

2. It's getting harder and harder to acquire this guy, simply because the Twins have acquired their man in Delmon Young, regardless of what OF position he plays, they have their young OF, who says now that they can't acquire a vet to play CF by trade? ( Nathan come to mind? )

3. Our rotation is set well with the Big Three, if it weren't for Johan being on the market, nobody would be talking about the fact that they're unproven, and all this other stuff you can pick to complain about. We'd actually be saying, " Boy am I excited, Hughes, Kennedy, Joba, WE'RE SET! Santana's on the block " Uchh, these guys could fall apart with injuries, they might falter under pressure. Etc."

4. We need 'pen help more than we need an Ace. Imagine, Santana is acquired, our pen blows one of his gems and he suddenly becomes unhappy in N.Y., then we see this happen all over again.

5. Who says the Twins just can't keep him? FA next year.

So while you're at home hyped up with all the Santana sweepsteaks, jump off the cloud, simmer back down to reality, until the deal's done, which it's not, all of this is just a bunch a hoopla.

I don't mean to be a party pooper, more like the safety net.

Dudes, I dunno why it posted... twice...?

chaz,

I absolutely agree with you that the Yanks could get more "bang for the buck" if they dealt with the A's. I wouldn't mind seeing that happen. However, in regards to their offense, the A's actually were a much more successful team back in the late 80's, and early 90's with hitters like Canseco, Dave Henderson, and Mark McGwire as compared to the A's teams of recent years who have struggled somewhat with consistency which has resulted in them struggling to make the playoffs. I think that's because they struggle badly in the first half of the season then they actually turn it on in the second half to dig themselves out of the hole they dig for themselves only to wind up totally gassed by the time they reach the playoffs. So with a team of .250 hitters you're going to have an inconsistent team. The differences between the two A's teams bears that out.

bdsouth,

I just can't see Minnesota walk away as a FA, and get nothing for him, that would be foolish. Now that the Twinnies have young I feel they will want at least two qualities pitchers for Santana in order to compensate for the loss of Santana, and Garza, and the Yanks have shown no willingness to trade any of their high-end pitchers at all.

I hope Santana ends up in that other league, the NL. If we're facing hi, it'd be good, cuz it'd be in the WS, a game we'd liely lose, let's hope it's not a key game. XD

Hey Matt, what do you think of trading for Nathan, instead of Santana, I guess he'd be cheaper when it comes to talent, and he'd bolster our bullpen. I wouldn't mind giving Melky up for him, but our Big Three do not count in this one. Mely plus some good pitching prospects. Sounds like a good deal, but then I guess it always comes down to what the Twinkies want, not what we would offer.

Erik Bedard, trade block or not, will not be traded to the Yankees, Red Sox, Rays... nobody in the AL for that matter, so let's discount him, it's just not a smart trade for the O's.

Danny Haren... Danny Danny Danny. There are pros and cons to this one. Pros: He's younger than Santa and can pitch in the AL. Cons: Because he's young, and can pitch in the AL, he'd be expensive in trade talent either way, so it's like dealing with another Santana, with the Billy Beane effect on... sheesh.

First of all, I would like to see Santana go to the NL, possibly the Mets, that would be ideal if the Yanks don't get him.

I would give up Cabrera for Nathan, but not the Big Three, he isn't worth it. He would make an excellent set-up man for Rivera, and take over for Rivera when he retires. He would most likely also cost us Tabata or Alan Horne or Marquez.

Joe Nathan is 35. I don't see him as a "replacement" for Rivera.

Actually he's 33, but you're right he won't be a replacemment for Rivera. I could have sworn he was younger than that though. Oh well.

Reiteration: Temporary replacement. Who would you put in there to replace Rivera once he's out? I would difinitely say Ross Ohlendorf, barring that he develops into a shutdown type releiver, sheesh, he's already good to be the set-up man, in my opinion.

Although we have Edwar Ramirez, Ohlendorf, Humberto Sanchez, Jose Veras, Mark Melancon, Steven Jackson, J.B. Cox, .... Joba? Nah, he'd probably be an Ace in 2011 anyway, so besides him, ALLLLLLL those guys.

I know it doesn't matter what I think, But I believe that the SOX are not in this for the trade but to only drive up the price of getting Santana, They don't want to pay him 22mil for 6 yrs. The Yanks just have to hold steady and if he goes elsewhere so be it. As you are all saying there are other options to look at, and we can't wait too long, if we trade Cabrera we still have to go after and sign another CF or trade for one.
Hank is running this show Cash is just trying to look like a GM. Hank is making all the decisions on this one.

I hate the waiting for the shoe to drop on this one.

We still need bullpen help, I remember last year thinking our pen would be good and you know what happened, hope JG can manage the pen better.

yankees are the worst team in the MLB and the biggest joke ....Phils in '08 baby