Hot Stove: Make your Johan pitch

hi, i think we shure need Johan in our rotation, we need that kind of player to represent the horse or ace in rotation, a thing we haven't had in years. I think we should give melky cabrera for him, and let johnny damon be out starting center field again.

Oh man Bryan, this ought to be fun....... :)

If we trade yet ANOTHER heavy-hitting 2nd baseman (anyone remember Soriano?) I'm going to puke! Leave Cano right where he is. Great bat, good hands. With Damon in the roster and Duncan as a fill in, we have CF covered a little better as well as some farm talent for the coming years. So I think any deal COULD start with Cabrera. And Minn needs a CF with Hunter gone. To see Hughes go after spending the last two years listening to the club talk about him as our next franchise would make me ill. I think we all know Joba isn't going anywhere. Kennedy is an unknown quantity. Touted as potentially BETTER than Hughes is a tough pill to swallow if true. And if ANYONE blogs that a Wang for Santana deal makes sense, SOMEONE'S gonna get slapped!

That all said, I will reserve my "I told you so's" for after the game agains the Twins where Hughes beats us.....

Bryan,
I think we're in desperate need of some positive movement on the Pettitte front! PLEASE!! :)

I do want Santana. I think a Colter Bean for Santana trade satisfies all parties involved and fills gaping holes in both organizations.

RCN: the trade request from Minny is Hughes, Melky, and Austin Jackson.

Damon: still has wheels (he stole 25bases!), and is only 33. Let him patrol CF.

I know you're joking, but the Beaner is a free agent. You always root for the good guys, but good luck to Colter, who should latch on somewhere for another shot sooner or later.

Do I want Santana, who doesn't? Think it will take Hughes, Cabrera, and maybe even Cano. Hate to lose Cano, but Santana is the ace we have been lacking for some time. Think Boston would have won without Beckett? Make the deal. traz.

Golf,
Couldn't have posted it better myself. If we give up Robby Cano, Phil Hughes, or Joba Chamberlain in a deal for Santana, it could be one of the biggest mistakes in the ENTIRE tenure of Cashman. Anyone thinking it's smart to create 2 (or even 3) vacancies on the roster for 1 pitcher (no matter how good he is) is delusional if they think it's a smart deal. Sorry, kids, he only pitches every 5 days, so 1 pitcher will not bring us a championship.

Right now, we have too many outfielders, and NOT ENOUGH of everything else. So I would be reluctantly willing to deal Ian Kennedy and Melky Cabrera along with 2 2nd tier prospects for Johan. If Minny wants any more than that, they can shop Santana to some other team. I can wait a season or 2 for the pitching talent we ALREADY HAVE to develop.

And, for the love of God, keep Wang off the table. He may not be an "ace", but he's one of the best pitchers in the game, and we'll need more than 1 good pitcher in the rotation to make a run at Boston. Let me put it like this; If we trade Wang in the deal it doesn't help us FILL out our rotation. How is this not OBVIOUS? Granted, we get a better "ace", but what does that do for the other 4 spots in the rotation? Another thing, anyone that wants to throw out the name "Andy Pettite" needs to come out of La-La-Land, and back to reality. As of today, he is still Andy Pettite, FREE AGENT, not Andy Pettite, Yankee Starter. Don't count your chickens before they hatch.

chaz I guess that makes the two of us who think that Wang should not be traded for Santana

Chaz:

Twins want Hughes, Melky, and Austin Jackson. Cano, Wangers, Joba, etc... are off the table.

Now what?

I agree that Johan Santana is the lefty ace that this team desparately needs. I don't think anyone can present an arguement why we shouldn't pursue him. However, we simply cannot let Minny bend us over just because they know we need him and some a-hole says Boston might get him. If Minny is allowed to completely deplete Boston's stable of up-and-coming pitchers, LET THEM DO IT.

If it were a perfect world, we could sign Aaron Rowand to play centerfield to fill in for Cabrera until the other young outfielders we have in the system are ready for the show. We get a phenomenal defensive player who hits .300 and bangs out 30 jacks. Granted, his power numbers would go down once he leaves that launching pad in Philly, but his defense is enough to make up for it. Minny gets Kennedy, Cabrera, Jackson, and another 2nd tier starter like Clippard, DeSalvo, or Henn. We get Johan, and then we punch our ticket to the World Series. Wang, Cano, Hughes, and Chamberlain are OFF THE TABLE!

Yanksrox,

Dude, noone is going to convince me that dealing Hughes is a good idea. The guy I put on the table in lieu of Hughes is Ian Kennedy, and add 1 more starter prospect to sweeten the deal. If Minnesota wants Hughes, they can take Johan and stuff him up their pimply a__.

Everyone wants Santana, what's not to like? The price is too high though. Let's develope the young talent we have. From 1996 to 2000, we didn't have a "lights-out" number one starter, we had a number of guys who could pitch the opening game of the playoffs. The thing they had in common was they were "money" pitchers in the big game. I believe Joba, Hughes and Kennedy have that trait. I think Wang's post season troubles had more to do with mechanics than nerves and that can be rectified between Girardi and Dave Island. Remember, over the past two years nobody in baseball has won more games then Wang (not even Santana). If Pettite retires lets work a deal with Baltimore for Bedard. They actually are interested in Farnsworth! Lets pay his entire salary and add in some tier two pitching prospects. The Yankees have always been willing to roll the dice with high priced pitching. Lets roll the dice with our young talent and build some chemistry, another missing ingredient since 2000.

jegunz: Bedard is O.K., but the last thing the Yankees need is yet another 30 something pitcher WITH injury problems.

Santana: 4 years in a row with atleast 220inning pitched.

What happens if one of our 'big 3' gets injured? We'll be seeing the like of Karsten, Rasner, Desalvo, and Clippard AGAIN trying to push us to the playoffs, NO THANK YOU.

Chaz, if Minny would take Melky, Kennedy and even TWO B prospect pitchers out of the following pool (Desalvo, Clippard, Rasner, Karsten, Igawa), I would be happy. Take Pavano while you're at it.

However, I think they need someone like Hughes to justify the move to their 'fan-base'.

Chemistry.......highly overlooked in these talks, jegunz. Good point.

Well, they haven't demonstrated a loyalty to that "fan-base" for the last few seasons, anyway. Why do you think Johan wants out? The Twins' front office has made absolutely 0 effort to improve that team's chances to compete in the AL Central. With a few key moves, the Twins could have had a real shot at multiple world series appearances, but they stayed pat. Why would they suddenly give a rat's a__ about the fans now? They didn't even breathe towards Torii Hunter. I think they've already raised their fist to the fans with that, why not extend the middle finger with the Johan deal? LOL.

Look for Mauer and Morneaux to move out of Minny at the end of thier contracts.

yanksrox, you said "but the last thing the Yankees need is yet another 30 something pitcher WITH injury problems".

Bedard is 7 days younger than Santana and the injury that cut his season short was an oblique muscle strain not his arm. From ESPN: If not for the strained oblique, Bedard easily would have topped Jake Peavy's 240 strikeouts and led the majors, and with the few more victories he might have earned, could have stated a serious case for the AL Cy Young award. The Orioles have Bedard's arbitration rights through 2009, but they might do well to lock him up with a long-term deal before then as the 28-year-old lefty continues to improve.

I've got to agree with Chaz on the Minnesota brass. The best they've done is swindle the locals into even more taxation for this 'new stadium' they've been crying about for so long. They couldn't even sell the roof to Minnesotans! At 80 million more to the price tag, sure I can see why some balked at that idea, however, when the Twins look like this last year's Cleveland team in April, well maybe then they'll realize it was worth it because I can assure you now there'll be rainouts/snowouts. It's bad enough in Minnesota anyway, we can have bright sunny skies one minute and a tornado the next... but yes, back to the point.

You can bet Mauer and Morneau will likely be gone too. I think it's Mauer that's the local boy, but I know of them is... even still I bet once he gets an idea of what he'll command on the market, he'll rethink his local-boy status too.

Then you've got Liriano. I think they've thrown this guy's arm out... word was they brought him up a little too early or the innings load was too much, too soon...

But the bottom line is Pohlad is a tightwad. This doesn't surprise me either, as they follow in line with the other three sports here too. Of course we'd have to separate the Stars and the Wild when talking Hockey, but the Vikings and the Wolves should be evidence enough of a history of futility and poor choices.

I think this is one of those times for US!

Yep, Santana is so enticing. He's a lefty and a dominant one too, fits right in with Yankee Stadium.

However, I again have to agree with Chaz. If we go out and dispense Hughes to the Twinkies... colossal mistake based on projections and even some performance. I think Hughes looks as good as billed too.

I don't think that's the message the Yankees want to send right now seeing as how we've regained a focus on establishing the farm talent and have some up and comers in the pipeline.

I too think this is a risky move if not weighed carefully. If we presume Boston is a player... then we risk making a mistake paying too much for Santana while works on pertinere standing pat and filling in a couple of spots. The starting pitching is not an area that Boston's lacking in right now, for all intents.

On the flip-side. Not making a deal for Santana at this time could be a mistake too, it's all speculation but you'd figure Santana to do at least as well as he has with the Twinkies. I don't think that'd be a stretch really. Barring some injury, I'd see Santana doing even better. It's not a hard calculation to make, our offensive averages have to be much better than Minnesota's.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen Santana pitch and get pitiful offensive support. I'd expect that to be reduced a good deal.

So, with Pettitte officially not a roster man currently, as much as we hope that he'll come back we have to have contingencies. Johann is certainly the kind of contingency you like to talk about!

I think though that we should stand firm on at least this one point (since we caved to Rodriguez - which I was not opposed to); that Hughes is not tradeable. I think Joba should be/remain on that list. Melky looks like the only viable position player we can offer that we can replace without too much trouble (and even have new talent in development). I think if we can't make a deal with Kennedy and Melky and some 2nd tier folks, then we should refrain and **** it up next season with the Rooks taking their inevitable lumps. It sure looks better in the longrun to me to keep Hughes.

But even still it's all still speculation, anything can happen that's not projected and could cause a made-trade or a no-trade decision to look bad later... but that's what the GM gets paid for, forecasting well!

Thank you, knuteroc, very eloquently put.

Please, please, please DO NOT trade Hughes! HUUUUGE mistake!

Knuteroc: I love the post.

Question to you good sir: IF Pettite retires, and we're left with 3 rookies in the starting rotation, do you feel comfortable with that?

I am definitely lobbying for Santana to join us, but it may ALSO be beneficial that IF the yanks decide to pass on Santana that we acquire a veteran pitcher (Bartolo Colon comes to mind for some odd reason). Even if they're signed for a baby sitter role for 1 year, I still would feel more comfortable keeping the rotation to more experienced guys.

Chaz, chime on this too please!

I for sure know that I don't want to trade Phil Hughes, that dude rocked in October, I think I just want to wait and see if the Yankees can get Johan as a free agent, I can wait.

Atta girl, Jeterstar. I would like to see the Yanks try and wait it out too. But, if a trade is imminent, see my above deal.

Yanksrox, Colon? Seriously? The only thing we could look forward to with Colon in the clubhouse is Britton, Bruney and Joba would definately lose weight because Colon would eat all the food. I don't need to see another fat, old, injury prone has-been every 5th day. If we pass on Santana and Pettite retires, we need to make move for Carlos Silva or Randy Wolf.

Like most everyone else, I don't think the Yanks should trade Hughes for Santana at all. He definitely has the talent, and ability to be the staff ace within the next two years plus he is very young. I think it's even crazier to trade starters, Wang, and Hughes, to get him. Wang at best is a staff ace, at worst he is a No. 2 starter on any team (personally I think he is a better fit as a No. 2 starter), and Hughes. That's two possible staff aces just to get one. But then again, this is Crashman we are talking about, but seriously, I don't think even Crashman is dumb enough to make that trade. Heck, I don't see the Twinnies going after 2nd-tier prospects like DeSalvo and KArstens even the Twinnies can see they aren't much. The trade that will most likely help the Twinnies, is one that will most likely fill their needs which would upgrade a very average offense. Like I said, a trade package that would include Kennedy, Cabrera, Eric Duncan, Betemit, Jose Tabata, or Austin Jackson may be more palatable for everyone.

I don't want to see Colon near the Yanks, he's another injury ready to happen. Real helpful!!

Matt! I kind of missed you, I didn't post that much last week, and I don't trust Colon that much either, I think he has conditioning problems.

Conditioning problems? LOL. That man is so fat that he roller skates with greyhound busses. He's a fat, fat, fatty.

Yup, his better days are far behind him.

i think the Yankees should be concentrating on getting Pettitte back.. i think Andy with the kids and Moose could actually be a strong rotation

Pettitte

Wang

Hughes

Chamberlain

Moose

(with Kennedy as a backup starter and perhaps long reliever)

the cost to getting Santana would just weaken the Yankees now and in the future.. i think the Twins would just be asking for too much

Having Kennedy as the 5th starter would make the rotation much stronger. He is younger, and more talented than Messina at this time and point. Have Mussina in the pen as a long reliever, we all saw how effective he was as a pitcher with more rest, something he would get as a reliever.

Having Kennedy as the 5th starter would make the rotation much stronger. He is younger, and more talented than Messina at this time and point. Have Mussina in the pen as a long reliever, we all saw how effective he was as a pitcher with more rest, something he would get as a reliever.

Hi Yanksrox (and all)...

I may not feel as comfortable as I'd like to with that rotation, BUT, I'd feel better about it than I have in the last 3-4 years.

I mean, I think most people feel like I do, that with Randy, we knew we weren't going to get the Randy of his heyday but we we're hoping to get some of that dominance. I think we all felt disappointed in him, especially considering we also took a risk on with Pavano too.

Granted, there'll be times when the youngin's struggle. The question though is would we rather have kids taking lumps here and there or would we rather 'have' vets on the staff that have in the past achieved success?

Colon for example. While we can look at his past and point to the positives we can also just as well point to some negatives and even to the decline 'grading' as it were and where Bartolo falls in with that, or whomever if we bring in a Vet.

I know it's very hard to watch a player you love decline in skill or ability. Like with Moose, we watched last year as he started strong, then fell into that midseason slump and then appeared pretty good down the stretch. Yet, in this case, we pull and hope for Moose to have or pull out a little something like he has in the past. We hope that he can do so when maybe his control isn't what he'd like it to be or the Ump is a Strike-Zone hijacker.

Conversely, with the Rooks, you face the opposite. You hope their nerves, inexperience etc. will not come into play, or much anyway. You hope that the kids get a call or a few from the umps, you hope that the umps aren't too ridiculous about a youngster establishing his zones or rather his spots within it.

So when you talk about youth versus experience, it's a tough call no doubt!

Honestly, I might expect other youngsters to get the deer-in-the-headlights look after getting ripped for a couple hard doubles and a run or two, but for whatever reason I don't get that feeling with Hughes or Joba. Kennedy, I haven't seen enough of to have a gut feeling on.

Not that these two will not make mistakes or have further learning to do, I just think that their stuff and command is impressive and not having the years rigor on their bodies yet. I would at least be open to seeing a younger, more inexperienced staff that does however have electric stuff, versus a staff that has been-there, done-that and is on the decline but we can still count on their 'savvy'.

Sorry but last year I think Pettitte was the only to show any real 'savvy' amongst our veterans. Clemens showed some things here and there too but we don't expect him to be back so he's not necessarily meant for this part of the discussion. Moose seemed to brood and be upset with things (himself or the umps' calls) more than he showed me any real 'savvy' as a veteran.

Now that's not to say that I was paying attention at all times either!

So, to answer your question, yes I would. I mean I realize that may mean we concede that a Division Title isn't 'expected', but if that's what it takes to get the staff retooled and going back in the right direction, than so be it!

I guess the one question we could ask ourselves is; how many years would we expect to have Santana at his current ability? Does having that now outweigh what it might be in having Hughes for double that? All other things aside skill-wise, I'm curious about that. 5 years for Santana, 6 or 7? Where do we think his decline will begin? Do we also think that Hughes ascension would take longer or more than one or two years if that? I mean we can include Joba and Kennedy too in this discussion, I'm just thinking in terms of whether we trade Hughes or not.

I still have to say we shouldn't at this time for the price. Maybe two years ago for sure... but now, it's a difficult choice.

I do like the direction we've been taking lately though with letting the farm bring some boys in to replace instead of going after the FAs. Doesn't it seem like we've been getting burned on some of those FA acquisitions, especially of late? I know collectively we can provide a comprehensive list so I think that point's probably agreed upon by most...

The thing is, if Johann does stay through the year, Minnesota gets what for him when he hits FA? That's right, two draft picks! I think it's in THEIR interests to push a trade before he hits the market.

Now this by the way only serves to illustrate just how poor Minnesota brass is. I mean I do realize that any team would look to get the most out of any player leaving, but the point is, Minnesota knew that they weren't going to give Johann market value, they also knew that he'd doubtfully accept less (their offer), then they also know that if they deal him before he hits freeagency, they can walk away with getting some good players that will make their team a semi-contender again for a couple of years, until those players make a name for themselves and they have to do this all over again. Whereas if everyone says no-thanks this year... Minny gets a couple of draft picks that won't be any of the guys we have in the pipeline and we may be able to keep our boys and get our Man!

I doubt it's going to shake out like that, but it's nice to hope now and then.

I do though think that the Twins are asking for too much considering, they're not going to pay their talent anyway! All they do is get talent on the cheap and let them go once they've raised their dollars as Steamin' Willie Beamon said in Any Given Sunday. No reason we should give away our good prospects (are they even prospects anymore?) to get one SP. Not at this price anyway. If we could only be assured that the Twins would trade Hughes back to us when he's gotten too expensive, now that I'd go for! LOL

Santana is not worth giving up our young players. Give the Twins a list of players and let them pick from that, also throw in Giambi and paid part of his salary.
Pitchers: Clippard, DeSalvo

Mussina, Rasner, Karstens,

Beam, Pavan, Henn and Farnsworth

Position players: Phillips,

Damon, Betemit, Jackson,

Tabata, Gonzales, Duncan (either)

If they would add Morneau to the package, take their pick and we add Cabrera to our package. We should be able to find good fillins for those we lose.

If Santana doesn't work Bedard would be a good addition. I think Pettite will be the key in what happens.

But I think we have to start thinking young saving the best for the future the next Yankee generation and still be a winner now. For years our farm system lacked good major league quality players, so now is the time to go with youth, win or lose.

Here's a question. If Pettitte comes out tomorrow and says "Ok Hank, I'm in", how does that change things? What if the top of the rotation looks like Wang/ Pettitte?

And in ANY deal for Santana, I say we throw in Pavano for FREE! We'll pay his $10M, just take him.

RCN: then the Yankees of '08 will look a lot like that of '07, just exclude Clemens, Pavano, and hopefully Igawa.

I do think the Yankees of '08 are capable of ~100wins as it is. Just think of how many stupid games we had started by guys like Rasner, Karstens, Igawa, Chase Wright....I mean come on, if we were to remove those games with (at the bare minimum) 5 innings of ball by our rookies the Yankees would have plenty of opportunity to win.

Santana is icing on an already sweetened cake.

fjr69@go.com,

Santana, the best pitcher of our generation, will not be traded for a bunch of B-list talent. There's going to be competition to get him, and there's no way Minnesota picks from our bargain bin while LA, the Mets, and Boston have top line prospects to offer.

rcngolf99@yahoo.com,

If Pettitte steps in and says "I'm in", I think they need to still pursue Santana. Pettitte's signing fills an immediate need, but they need to make decisions for the future. After next season, Pettitte will probably be gone. We need someone to be a veteran presence for 09 and beyond. Santana's still young, but he's pitched in 8 seasons. Wang is entering his 4th season next year.

Remember, we also have Joe Girardi as a manager, he did a stellar job managing a very young Florida staff. I would imagine our young pitching staff was half the reason he got the job in the first place.

Besides, Joe G won't pull a guy after 5 innings because he's allowed 3 runs. He'll make 'em stand in there and take their licks. Something our last manager, as awesome as he was, did NOT do. Our bullpen will be used a little more wisely next season. I look for Joe G. to really whip these kids into shape faster than we are expecting.

Imagine Andruw Jones comes out of his 2007 slump to hit 40 hrs along with A-Rod in front of him...Santana, Chamberlain, Kennedy, Wang, and Mussina pitching.

Damon LF

Jeter SS

Abreu RF

Rodriguez 3B

Andruw Jones CF

Posada C

Matsui DH

Cano 2B

Giambi 1B

Santana

Wang

Chamberlain

Kennedy

Mussina

UPGRADE. I know some disagree, but here you get proven players that are not necessarily "old guys" Sign them just long enough to then pull up prospects. 2009 get Texiera and WOOOOOOWWWWWW.

Relief pitchers are not as sexy and some of the good guys have already been taken sooo pick whoever you want on those. They are the most important but not as fun to discuss....

Cashman can NOT sign a marquee bat, and NOT sign a marquee pitcher to the roster, and make this team AWESOME. It's not as fun, yes, but it's more realistic. If we just got a better bullpen, we can kick Boston right in the face. If we can work out an amicable deal for Johan, and sign a good center fielder to replace Melky, we will run away with the eastern division.

fjr,

The Twinnies are not crazy enough to pick from the list of players you made up. Except for Tabata, and maybe Jackson, there really isn't any quality talent in that list, especially in your list of pitchers. The Twinnies are just not that dumb.

chaz,

You're assuming that the staff can pitch as well as we think they can. That's a pretty big assumption considering the younger pitchers don't have much experience at the major league level. As we've seen, the offense alone isn't going to get the job done.

I think that the Yankees should trade
Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera, and possibly Shelley Duncan, Jeff Kartasens, or Kei Igawa for Santana. He would be a great pitcher to have on opening day! Plus then you can go and sign a center fielder like Aaron Rowand or Andruw Jones.

Matt you are absolutely right. But the players I mentioned were on our roster that did win over 90 games. If the Mets or Sox want to deplete their teams so be it, But will they be willing to pay up. If he goes to the Mets, that's good, he'll be in the NL. Bedard is still a choice, He'll also be cheaper.
My point was that we should not give up our young talent for one very good pitcher, But to attempt to hold on to the future of this team. We had the best team in the AL in 2007 and pitching was a major problem along with a few stretches where we couldn't hit even 2nd rate pitching. I think the young studs will come through and be better than last years staff.

The bullpen is where help is needed, we need to find someone who can come in and throw strikes.

If Melky goes then we have Damon back in CF, Or do we spend more bucks to get Roland or Jones, I think we are more in need of a hard hitting, good fielder at 1B.

Remember MONEY will not buy Championships, talent and working together as a team (chemistry)does. We know that well!! Joe G will be a winner.

Yankrox, I'd like to see the Yanks win 100 games too, but it isn't going to happen. This team is still weak. The bullpen hasn't been overhauled and the starting rotation has little to no experience. If you're relying on Wang, Moose, and 2-3 rookies, you're not being realistic. This team will not beat *******. It'll have trouble placing 2nd in the East.

the word censored=the b_l_o_w_s_o_x.

In all honesty, who do you think will be better, 3-4 years down the road? Kennedy or Hughes, then, ask yourselves, who should the Yankees let go of now? I definitely think it's Kennedy. Hughes just has too many great pitches, while most gurus say that with Kennedy, what you see is what you get. He's more of a finished product, more polished, and nothing is likely to improve, that's why he's been compared to the Ol' Moose. Now, that means that he is better than Hughes NOW, but ask yourself, when Phil' finally hones all of his pitches and figures out how to use them against ML hitters, who do you think would be better. I say Hughes over Kennedy 10 to 1.

Fellas's....Of course the Yanks need a front line starter...Don't be suprised if Andy Pettite calls it a day...Must assume that Yanks starting rotation will be Wang,Mussina,Hughes,Joba, and Kennedy...expect Mussina to struggle, early and often...must anticipate at least one of the rooks to experience arm problems, controll issues or both during the learning curve...cannot afford not to go after Santana...Good news is that Yanks don't have to part with any of the "BIG" three...Think Kennedy has just as much or more upside as Hughes...Twins will accept this package of solid position/pitcher players....Melky Cabrera @ Center...Melky has great arm but will never average more than 15 homers/ .290 ave (Yanks could have resoved the Center field issue a few years ago by Signing the then 27 y/o Carlos Beltran who hits for power and average rather than Johnny Damon), solid minor league prospects who can be projected as starter relievers for Twins...Scott Patterson, Alan Horne, Matt Disalvo (has big league experience), Steven White and position player Jose Tabata...Outfielder Jackson is another Delmond Young... the prize package, don't trade him. The starting line up will be 1b Wilson Betemit, 2b) Robinson Cano 3b) Rodriguez ss) Jeter C)Posada Lf) Damon rf) Abreu and finally the Yanks can actually salvage the career of a still young Andru Jones...his elongated upper cut, homer swing will be corrected by Your terrific batting coach who helped Rodriguez approach at the plate...not to mention Jones' gold glove ability...Finally, consider using Jeff karstens, Mussina, Igawa for bullpen duty

I read recently in an article on www.mlbtraderumors.com that the Twins may not even be interested in Austin Jackson after all, it states that the Twins' scouts are more interested at spotting ML talent at A-Level Ball than the "Big Name" prospects the Yankees-- or any other team for that matter-- have. A trade package would look something like this :

Phil Hughes ( assuming that they don't want Kennedy), Melky Cabrera ( they do not express much interest in Cano because they already have Alexi Casilla, highly touted by the orgnization at 2B. )

Allen Horne- If the Yankees say it's Kennedy or bust.

And a couple of A-Ball prospects they may have been scouting over the years, which us Yankee fans may not even know about.

If it pans out this way, we keep our best OF prospects AND we get possibly the best lefty Ace in baseball today. You ask me, it's more of a steal if it goes down this way.

The link to this story is posted below.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/11/graziano-on-a-y.html

Why does everyone want to sell the farm for one player? Santana is great but he is not the difference maker. Our starting pitching was not really the problem last year. It was more of a bullpen and position players not hitting problem. Mussina is not washed up. He does need to be in a reduced role such as long relief/spot starter role. I would not trade any of the big three for Santana. build from within. let our pitchers develop. Save the money and make a run at a big bat next year because our position player prospects are not as strong and are further out.Besides regardless of what cashman does if it doesn't work out everybody will want his head on a platter.

!!!!!!!!!!DO NOT TRADE ROBINSON CANO!!!!!!!!!!!!

he's too valuable to the team, plus it's a very grim free agent market. trade melky if you have to, but KEEP CANO!!!!!!!!!!

fjr,

I agree, the Yanks should not be tearing apart their system, and giving away high-value prospects for established, older players. If anything, history has told us that doesn't always work, but in this league if a team wants a high quality player like Santana, a team is going have to be prepared to pay a steep price to get him. There's no way around that. That was my point. Unfortunately, most of the players you mentioned on your list aren't considered high enough value. They would never accept DeSalvo, who no one even picked up after being cut from the roster before last season, or Karstens who really hasn't shown much and has very average stuff. They may take Betemit to try to improve on a very average offense, but he will never be good enough to be a starter. Yes, some of them were a part of last season's roster ( most of them for better or worse ), but that isn't nearly enough for anyone to settle on. I just hope if the Yanks do make a deal for Santana, they don't include Hughes, and Cano in the same deal that would be disastrous for this team. Like I said, a more palatable deal would be Kennedy, and Cabrera, and maybe Betemit, and maybe Austin Jackson or Jose Tabata.

I also agree that the bullpen still needs to be a priority with Linebrink and Cabrera now signed with other teams the pickings are getting slimmer, and slimmer. Riske and Affeldt are still out there, the Yanks can't afford to sit on their hands and do nothing about this pen.

I think if Cabrera goes, then CF will be more of a priority than 1st base as there aren't any real good options in terms of 1st basemen on the market. Rowand or Jones would be the obvious targets if Cabrera does go that's for sure. Unfortunately, that means the Yanks will be stuck with another pathetic situation at first as they were last season.

Yanks will probably platoon Phillips for his glove, and Giambi for his offense. Not the most ideal situation.

sign riske and mahay they have proven themselves to be great AL, key word AL, relievers!!

I see some new names on the blog...welcome I really can't state anything that hasn't been brought up. I personally have always wanted Johan to be a Yankee. He wants to be on a winning ball club he has mentioned it in the past. The reality is the Yankees need him. What they don't need is for him to go to Ole' faithfull. Acquiring Johan has to put Andy in for a final round. I don't know if anyone realizes this but the Sox are still are world champions. There not going anywere soon. It makes me sick thinking one of are trio could part. I feel Joba is just untouchable to part. The same goes for "Canoe". Brian wont let Johan go anywhere else trust. It has been like watching a child grow with Phil. Ian has showed promise it's to bad we couldn't have seen him more last season. I don't know? Let me make this clear Beckett,Santana or Beckett vs. Santana

Of the "Big Three", Hughes is the ONLY one who has ACTUAL, PROVEN experience on our roster. With Mo back, it's a given Joba is back in the rotation. But REGARDLESS of what he did in the minors, he still hasn't started in the bigs yet. Kennedy had a couple good outings and shows potential. But let's not forget, early last season when all of you were projecting Karstens as a future anchor of the rotation based on one game of no-hit ball before the DL. Perhaps he'll still develop into that pitcher yet but..... I don't know what it will take to get Santana. But look at it this way, if we DON'T get him, the '09 rotation might look like: Wang, Hughes, Joba?, Kennedy?,?,? I know, I'm contradicting myself but this is probably one of the most difficult decisions we've had to make in a LONG time.

The Redsox are in the hunt. If they had the money , they could offer Lester ( 23 ) Elsbury ( 23 ). If they were to land Santana their rotation would lead off with Beckett and Santana folowed by Dice K & Wakefield. The yankees can not let that happen. In light of this possability, does that change what we might offer to the Twins? Like swallow hard Hughes and Melky
Our rotation would be Santana Moose Wang Kennedy

bbruning:
More like Santana, Wang, Moose, Joba, Kennedy. Problem is, when one of them goes down, who steps in now?

You guys that are so scared of Boston getting Santana must think their GM is an idiot. As much as I hate Theo Epstein, he has a good head on his shoulders. Aside from the Kason Gabbard for Gagne deal last year, I really haven't seen him make too many bonehead moves. That being said, I highly doubt he would be willing to deal Jacoby Ellsbury (who could have very well earned playoff MVP honors), John Lester (Boston's Phil Hughes), and Buckholtz (Threw a no hitter) to get a pitcher that he really doesn't need. Their rotation is dialed until further notice. Minnesota would have to practically give them Santana. Again, the press can say Boston is going to get Santana all they want. If Boston is willing to trade away all their prospects so that they can win over the next 2-3 seasons, LET EM. We can take our licks for the next few years until the team fully develops, and then we'll win for the next 5-10 years.

If Melky goes, What about a look at Gary Mathews not that the Angel have Hunter. He would be a good and cheaper addition than Jones or Rowland. Then we can go after a big hitting good fielding for 1B. ??
We still have to move on a good reliever, What is the holdup??

Boston's outfield is older than ours is, they are not just going to hand over their finest young outfielder in a trade that will only improve the rotation that is best in the majors already.

fjr69,

No thank you on Mathews. We don't need another HGH/Steroid freak on the roster. He can go to **** with the rest of the cheaters.

I think we should just be the Yankees and get Rowand AND Jones. LOL. Send a couple wise guys over to Minnesota to "persuade" their GM to give us Santana for Kei Igawa while we're at it.

Here's a great deal:

Giambi

Posada

Mo Rivera

Hughes

Jackson

for

Santana

Morneau

Mauer

Nathan

Done deal, let's go!

Chaz,

Agreed on your above comment. We could play Andruw off the bench and have him discuss daily with Giambi 'who is a bigger waste of money'game.

Oh, oh, I also think Joe Torre would fit in nicely as the Yankees bench coach.

I think that Jones still has 5 superstar calibur years left in him. I don't see him having the bad year he had last season ever again. Part of me wants to think that he tanked last year to get the heck out of Atlanta. You'll see Jones earning a gold glove, hitting .275, and crushing 40+ homeruns for someone this year.

hah yanksrox that deal would be sick, now if only pigs could fly..

My vote still goes to Rowand if we have to deal Cabrera. I just like the way he carries himself. Rowand is a total class act.......Hibatchi!

Here's my trade:

Giambi

Igawa

to St. Louis for

Pujols

Carpenter

talking trades??? for santanna? sure give up a great outfielder and second basemen for a pitcher. Johann won an award for gos sake!!! cano and melki didnt... of ocurse. why didnt i see it before..u win an award ure great if you dont u stink and why not trade you for a pitcher and why not also trade any prospect under age 25..I mean cc sabathia won the award this year...we NEED him!!!

above post was sarcastic..in case no one noticed

If you want awards, Evie, make sure to watch Robby Cano pick up an AL MVP sooner rather than later. He's going to hit 30 homers for us this season while batting .330.

im sick of seeing cano bat 7th!! any suggestions, maybe switch with abreu and go to 3rd and stick abreu 5th and move matsui to 6 and jorge to 7th?? anyone follow?

And for those of you about to blast me about cano's lack of control, digest these numbers.

Cano 2007: 40 walks 85 SO's

Abreu 2007: 84 walks 115 SO's

So ask yourself.. who has more of a control issue?

Corshep:

Compare GIDP, RISP, and atleast one or two variables touching on averages....

Cano IS a great hitter and will only become better, but he has the tendancy of falling behind in the count, swinging at garbage pitches etc... Abreu is VERY patient, takes plenty of pitches, and basically acts as A-Rods scout.

Until Cano can show me that he can hit 25+ homers(4 or 5 spot), or until he shows me he can be more patient (3), or greater speed(1), Jeter occupies the 2 spot, so that leaves 6-9. I like Po in the 6 spot b/c he's like a 3 spot hitting 6 and can do some damage in the late 1st early 2nd inning. 7 is a good spot for Robbie.

Abreu punches out alot because he CAN'T hit unless he has 2 strikes on him. LOL he averages 4.3 pitches per at bat, that is completely obscene! I'll take a 3 hole hitter that has that kind of patience ANY day of the week. On top of that Abreu is freaking fast. He can stretch singles into doubles, leg out dribblers, and swipe bases. That really helps the clean-up guy rack up stats.

That said, Cano WILL be a 3 hole hitter very soon. We only have Abreu for 1 more season, unless he has some kind of phenomenal year and we re-sign him.

Cano and Cabrera will be great hitters once they STOP first-pitch-swinging all the time. The only first-pitch-swingers that have any type of success are Nomar, and Vlad Guerrero.

Let's assume the 3 young guns grow into allstar pitchers in a few years. Who plays SS after Jeter can't anymore? Don't tell me A-Rod because he's just as old as Jeets. The Yank's farm system isn't as great as you guys think. I don't have any solutions to the championship drought. The Yanks need players who put the team first. Right now I can can count them on 1 hand. Good luck to Ca$hman.

Let's assume the 3 young guns grow into allstar pitchers in a few years. Who plays SS after Jeter can't anymore? Don't tell me A-Rod because he's just as old as Jeets. This team is still pretty old. The Yank's farm system isn't as great as you guys think. I don't have any solutions to the championship drought. The Yanks need players who put the team first. Right now I can can count them on 1 hand. Good luck to Ca$hman.

nodigidee,

I've been saying the same thing for a long time now. The Yanks' system is overvalued and is seriously lacking position players. We also have to worry about the catching position, first base, and of course the outfield. Who's to say Cashman will be around down the road?

I don't know why it posted twice??? Sorry gang.

Forget down the road Matt. I'm worried about 2008. A-Rod can have another monster year but the truth is, they won't beat the Chowderheads.

Uhg, the fact that the Steinbrenners can actually talk about getting rid of Phil Hughes and Melky makes me sick. Melky is a good solid defender, his bat is coming alive, and he can steal bases (not to mention that killer arm!). Johnny Damon is getting too old and is eating up too much money as well as Giambi. Hughes will improve and we could have our own "big three" with him, Joba, and Kennedy, not to mention Wang. As for a 5th guy, we can find someone to fill in that's not named Santana...while I'd love to have him (and who wouldn't) I'm not looking forward to having to give up some of our best players when we haven't seen them reach their true potential! We could have one of, if not, the top pitching staff in MLB in the next yr or 2...why give it up for one guy? Especially when they're thinkin of keeping Damon instead of Melky which makes no sense. Damon can't throw, can't run and whos to say he wont get hurt again? then who the **** do we put in center?? lol I guess I'm done now! it's just hard for me to see why we'd waste all this young talent again, i'm tired of seeing it go to waste and do well for other teams.