Hot Stove: The Yankees set some limits
We’ve got plenty of Johan Santana chatter out there this morning, but the Yankees and Twins appear no closer to making a deal than they had in recent days. Like we’ve said before, don’t expect anything imminent to develop, though we’re beginning to see the framework and boundaries be established.
To that end, the Yankees have apparently set early limits in their pursuit, offering an initial package that does not include Joba Chamberlain, The New York Times reports. Robinson Cano — whom the Yankees foresee as a future batting champ (remember all those times Joe Torre compared him to Rod Carew?) — is also off the table, the Newark Star-Ledger says.
Are these definite, final decisions? In the same offseason of A-Rod’s opt-out and opt-in, we should know better than to say that those stances won’t change. That’s especially true because the Yankees are going to face stiff competition if indeed the Twins do move Santana in this time period; the Dodgers, Mets and Red Sox are all considered players at this point.
The New York Daily News says the Twins are not interested in Chien-Ming Wang, who has won 38 games since 2006 and is headed for arbitration, but the New York Post reports the initial asking price is considered "exorbitant" – well beyond a package of Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera.
Finally, there’s this: If the Yankees do wind up dealing Melky Cabrera in a Santana trade – or any other deal – the club may already have a replacement in mind. The Star-Ledger reports the Yankees would be interested in Aaron Rowand to take over in center field. That interest in Rowand, a free agent, would be there despite the fact that Johnny Damon still has two years remaining on a four-year contract he signed to play center field.
Bryan Hoch
Johnny D. is best served, and serves the Yankees best, in LEFT field. His speed is still there and he’s still sure handed, but he’s got a 5 year old girl’s arm. I really enjoyed watching Melky fire bullets into the infield this season, Ichiro style.
I really hope that The Steinbrenners don’t cave into pressure from other teams and deal the 2 guys they say are off limits. While I don’t WANT to see Kennedy and Cabrera go, and HATE to see Hughes or Wang get delt; I would blow my top if we deal Chamberlain or Cano. I would absolutely go Chernobyl.
I agree, Cano is going to be amazing, and Joba… enough said.
So the Twins “want more” than Hughes and Cabrera… maybe we should through in A-Rod. I have a feeling that the asking price will be too high. Lets sit on this deal for a while and I’m sure it will lessen or some other team will unload everything.
I would hate to see any of these guy go. I think cash should keep the rotation like it is and if he adds another horse to it, it should be petitte and no one else. Why not take the approach the tigers took with their young pitching two years ago and let the young guys pitch, i mean that got them to the world series without the potent line up that the yankees have. NO DEAL CASH
I have an even better idea than going after Santana.
Sign Riske, develop Ohlendorf, Veras, Ramirez, and have Kennedy and Joba train like they’re starting (make the final decision in Spring training).
Tell Mussina to get into the best shape of his life so he’ll be more consistent.
Tell Farnsworth that his nose candy days are over.
Yell at Kei Igawa to have patience with his command and develop him as best we can in the Mexican winter leagues. Have him train as a starting pitcher but have come out of the pen in either short or long relief.
Boom, done.
Now, figure out 1st base.
we should just trade giambi and let betemit and phillips play first.
It is a market situation with supply and demand. The Twins have Santana. Yankees and Red Sox want him. Neither team wants to lose him to the other team. Each will bid high enough (prospects) to make it expensive for the other as in poker. The player will himself want to take advantage and ask for a longer term and lucrative contract. The team with the best intelligence, strategy, and tactics wins off the field first.
I don’t see why the Twins are asking for even more then Melky and Hughes…I mean, the other teams have the leverage. Santana declined their offer so he is not coming back regardless. Santana in 2008 is not worth Melky and Hughes for their another several years PLUS more prospects…We need a stand out pitcher like Santana. But I think we could get away with a trade for Danny Haren. That would be a huge move in securing the future. You get a quality starter, lose less quality young players.
I would not trade Joba or Cano.
I think Cabrera and Hughes is a possbility. We can’t keep Hughes hoping that he one day becomes of Satana’s caliber. That’s not going to happen.
I do not want to go in with Kennedy/Hughes/Mussina depended on. We need another pitcher.
No one is going to trade for Giambi-he has a terrible contract. He is a great option for coming of the bench power.
Also, the whole thing about Mussina and Farnsworth is ridiculous. You don’t think the Yankees have already put pressure on them? Mussina is a veteran and is already working hard. Farnsworth has gotten a lot of criticism and he knows what he’s doing wrong. That doesn’t mean if we yell at him he will suddenly become a better pitcher. Also, to think Igawa is going to be effective out of the pen is just stupid. He was terrible last year. You can’t think he’s going to pitch well out of the pen just because he did those 2 innings once.
how many times have we watched outstanding prospects have mediocre careers?
Hughes/Joba/Kennedy are NOT SEALED DEALs. Yankees have been starved of prospects so long the fans have forgotten how it works.
Best case senario sees one of them become the next Santana. But that’s just what it is, a best case senario.
I’m not saying we have to deal our prospects, by all means keep them, but don’t expect 20 game winners next year. if we get that, outstanding. But we very well may not, at least for some time.
I say if they want to deal it’s Cabrera, Kennedy, Possibly 2 minor leaguers,OK. If they also want Wang, They must throw in Morneau.
I don’t think there is much competition out there. The Sox don’t want to give up their young stars, besides what teams out there will be able to meet Santanas salary demands. If this deal is ever completed, CF is the next step, Rowland, Jones or do we go after a BJ Upton??
Or just forget the whole deal and make a pitch for Haren, Bedard or Trade for Kazmir. It’s a lot to ponder, Now It appears now that the Twins are calling all the shots, BUT!! We have many other options. Maybe their demand will change and we then will be driving the bus.
I agree with Chaz on this one, I would be disappointed to see Hughes, Melky and even one or two up-n-comers get dealt. I absolutely would not deal Cano, doncha Cnow from the Soriano dealing, we’ve got to keep those studs where we can.
The only thing that bothers me about this is that the Yankees are also in the bad-spot of these ‘sweepstakes’ because they’re really in the market for Santana, whereas Boston can just pretend a bit to up the ante…
So yes, I hope they don’t cave in and jump at a deal. I think though on the flipside… that it is somewhat rare when a CY-Young pitcher in his prime is up for grabs. So looking at the probable upside of having Santana, along with the fact that Johann is not happy here, nor is he going to stay here, along with the fact that we have a solid Vet who may or may not come back which would leave us with three rooks in the rotation, I can see why the Yanks will give this one their best run, even if maybe in the end they do have to give one more player than they wanted to… but I still believe we have to hold true to; no Cano or Hughes. I don’t even want to lose Melky, but you can see the huge plus to having Santana and ‘trying’ to replace Melky’s production. A Rowand or Jones in that spot I wouldn’t expect to see much of a difference except maybe in power (in our favor). **** I’ll even go on a super crazy training regimen and I’ll play CF for the Bombers in ’08. I’m not greedy either, I’ll take the league minimum.
I really think that Cabrera is not the sticking point for this deal, I’ll bet it’s Hughes or if not Hughes then whom else with Kennedy.
I’m telling you folks I get these odd premonitions from time to time and I’ve got one going now with respect to Johann. He’ll be a Yankee, the only thing is the details of HOW at this point.
if were rididng the “bus” then who is getting off on the next stop? or better yet who is waiting for us to pick him up?
i guess Girardi is behind the wheel, and jeter is riding “shotgun”
torre got off three stops ago, and petitte got off two stops ago; but the funny thing is that;
arod & Master got off four stops ago, then he caught a cab and got three stops ahead, then waited to be picked up again [this time ALONE]. crazy rascal, he still thinks Torre is driving.
next stop Minnesota!
cabrera is sitting in the front, next to ….
That was funny, HA HA
You’re right, This bus is being driven by Hank, Cash and Joe. What we say or think is really irrelevant. But “The Yanks” do have other options!!
Hahah, that’s funny SoxLose…
Don’t suppose we can get a dedicated sat to get us a view on the location of that bus to get a peep at who’s sitting next to Cabrera?!
My hunch is we’d see Hughes sitting next to him but that they’re really playing musical seats and we’ll have to wait until the last stop here to see who ends up in it!
Of course when it leaves Johann will be sitting next to Jorge…
oh i forgot who owns the bus,
he has his own penthouse on the bus
(click below)
http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/644833.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19332EFD823EFD41CFD2F3212B08E94291F284831B75F48EF45
I would offer Melky and Kennedy for Santana period. Santana is good but not that good. I agree with Matt and wait until next season when Santana is a F.A. that way no one gets dealt. I also agree that Betemit stays on the bench. The bench is weak compared to Beantown’s. The Yanks need bullpen and bench help.
rumor has it that wang was dropped off at JFK, he had to catch a flight to taiwan. so he might not even be in the bus, when they arrive at the “twin-city”
what tunes do you think they listen to combined? or do they have an (option)? with young Joey behind the wheel?
I think Coach Girardi listens to Mr. Frank Sinatra and Mr. Johnny Ca$h. Just a feeling.
they want:
cano, hughes, joba, melky, kennedy, wang, sanchez, and more players to be named later.
we need:
jo
maybe we should get borass to negotiate the deal,
hey alex, you still have his cell phone number?
The yanks should just stand pat and wait things out with minnesota. The red sox are stacked with pitching so i doubt they would trade their top prospect for johan as they already have an ace or two. Trade for dan haren or bedard who will be a whole lot cheaper than santana
The Yanks really need a starter like Santana. Cano are the Twins crazy, no way. But Melky, Hughes, and others out of the minors good deal. Minor league player Austin Jackson off-limits. Aaron Rowland would be a good addition.
Bus is now loaded, next stop Miami, Tampa, Oakland, Philly Minnesota, and Memphis to visit with ELVIS. Where will the bus stop and who will get on and who will be left behind??? Ask Hank.
i always wonder when trades occur, for multiple players for one player; does it play in their “psych” meaning your only half as goood as they other guy or even worse, you and five others equal to him alone. thats mindboggling…..
just out of curiosity, who is worth AROD?
AROD = one good starting pitcher, a catcher, an oufeilder, a secondbaseman & mybe a releif pitcher as well.
whuch ya think….
Bus Rules (musical chair trip)
when Joe’s “Mr. Johnny Ca$h” takes a pause, then all players must sit, so who ever can’t get to a seat will be traded away, first 3 will have to go to minus-the-soda.
hank, music please……
This would seem to throw a wrench in any Santana deal….
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/11/johan-demands-c.html
so i guess melky can go have a seat in the back of the bus, next to the untouchables.
does arod sit alone on the bus or is he negotiating his own floor on the bus, with an elevator of course….
Forget the BUS, Let’s get back to the possible trade or trades the Yanks need to get to the WS in 2008 and beyond. Help is coming, but from where? Will it be Santana, Haren, Bedard or Kazmir or ???. Who will be playing in CF? Will Phillips be on 1b? What will the bullpen be like? Do we stand pat, with a young staff? Lots of Questions! I guess we’ll have to wait for the coming meetings in Memphis. There will be some action there….
Well it seems much more likely that the Yankees will have to wait. Though I’ll reserve hope.
If the Yankees wait until the all star break, it could cost them a lot. Think about Hughes and Kennedy with 4.5 eras and after Joba having failed as a starter since he couldn’t make it through the 5th (kind of like old man moose) pitching only pretty good relief. We would be hoping they would accept a deal with them at that point. Scary thoughts.
jha…same could be said with Santana..he could get injured during the early part of the season next year making him unavailble until Free Agency. Also, best case scenario, Kennedy, Hughes and Chamberlain do so well that they all become untouchable. Yes they may lose their trade value if they do poorly, but since they are so young and have a lot to improve upon..thats not a bad thing for the future of the Yankees. There are other guys that can pitch without giving up tons of great people.
or imagine if santana has a bad first year, and the untoucables are unhitable, then do we still trade them away,,,
2003 jeter 2 sweet,
great minds type alike, hey you beat me by a minute
Prospects have a lot to prove, but these guys are all actually pretty good if you haven’t noticed. Hughes has been “untouchable” the past few seasons when he was in the minors. Now he finally makes it and the only person he could be traded for is Santana. I want to get my “Big 3″ poster for 08′ already!
I wonder how the players react to hearing these trades. Melky and Hughes. Having your boss say that Chamberlain is “untouchable”, but you are not. I guess when it comes to being traded for the best pitcher in the game right now, it eases the pain. If they are both back, I wonder what their reaction will be knowing that someone was willing to get rid of you, while other players with the same ability and age are out of the question of being traded.
And another point..how come Hank is just letting everyone know his plans? Why don’t we do things behind closed doors instead of making announcements to newspapers so everyone knows what we are doing? Do you know what the Red Sox plan on doing? Everything we have heard about them has been just rumors because they are keeping things closed so the Yankees don’t up the price or steal players away.
Nothing? Am I the only one on the west coast here?
i think we have a rat in the “bus”
yeah, all teams now & then do that to there good players, heck we did it every year to petitte back in the nineties, it was like great pitching in the ALCS and WS but we gonna put ya on the trading block, then next year agian and again. i was so bored, i thought the learned their lesson back when petitte actually left to houston, and pitched in the WS also.
so these players must feel like goatcheese when their names are mentioned for trade-talks, but nothin happens,
on a flip side we have manny ramirez and miguel tejada who would like to be traded, but aren’t.
weird wacky wang world of wasewall.
The red sox were smart not to sign Damon to 4 years.
here’s me thinking 3 team trade.
Twins need position players, Yanks don’t have young MLB ready talent.
But give up Kennedy plus another young pitcher or 2, plus maybe one other prospect to a team with young position players who the Twins want and needs pitching, but can’t afford Santana.
What do you guys think?
I think forget about Santana. Keep Wang, kennedy, Hughes and Chamberlain get get Haren. Then trade like 3 great pitching prospects to the A’s, they have NOTHING right now which used to be their strength. They can’t afford anybody so they need young guys that are not major league ready yet. Trading young guys for youngs guys is a win win. But imagine that pitching staff. If anyone struggles, you still have Igawa and Mussina waiting. Maybe even Petitte late in the season if needed to come out of retirement Clemens style.
No way would I give up a starter like Kennedy, and then another starter from the majors or minors, and then turn around, and trade what another starting pitcher, and a starting position player, and the player you traded for. Not only are the Yanks coming out way behind in that one, it’s asking for trouble. Again, maybe the ideal trade package would be Kennedy, Betemit and Cabrera, and maybe one more hitter from the minors like an Austin Jackson. IF they want one more player throw in Igawa as well, but I just don’t get the feeling the Yanks will wind up with Santana.
yanks,
I hope you’re kidding about your last post. The thought of having Igawa, and Mussina scares the **** out of any sensible Yankee fan. Another thing, pitching is still the strength of the A’s even though it isn’t as strong in past years. The A’s really need to concentrate on their offense which has been very inconsistent, and average over the past years, not pitching.
the whole dynamic with the Twins may have changed.. which may mean the Yankees might not be in the running for Santana any more..
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/11/johan-demands-c.html
I posted the same thing above a little earlier about the Twins trade with the Rays – you’re right, this could take the Yanks out of the running completely.
Also, Percival is off the market soon too – also to the Rays.
Are there any relievers left out there worth it???
Seems like Cashman is asleep at the wheel when it comes to relievers – all this talk about the bullpen help everyone seems to planning on (Ohlendorf, Veras, etc.) makes me a little nervous….
janie,
Yanks could still go after Affeldt, and Riske. If that deals goes through all bets are off.
oops, sorry about that Janie.. didn’t see your post from earlier
I think Austin Jackson is a keeper. Tabata is the tradable one. I agree Igawa & Mussina are frightning. I say trade them both along with Giambi.
The MLB meetings will be in Nashville, Tennessee,, not Memphis.
It appears that the angels sox,and mets are driving the price up on Santana to the point where we should back off and watch. The Young trade changes the situation a bit but not enough to derail the trade.
Hank is giving out a lot of information, but I think he’s a lot smarter than to give out his undercover ideas.
First of all, just because Jackson had one good season doesn’t make him a keeper. He still has quite a ways to develop over the next few years. Tabata is the one the Yanks should really keep as he projects better in the near future. As far as the Yanks are concerned that deal could derail the deal.
Perhaps you’re right, but only time will tell. I’d like to keep both. We’ll need some good position players down the road.
This anticipation is nerve racking, I can’t wait for something to happen, like maybe signing a reliever. anything to show we are trying to move forward. It’s been too quiet on the Yankee front. “GO YANKEES”
I agree, I would like the Yanks to keep both of them as well. This organization is lacking in talented position players. I think the Yanks will sign a reliever fairly soon, as for Santana, who knows.
MATT I see where you are also a Dolphin fan, I’ve been a fan since they started in ’66, Had season tickets for years until I gave them up in ’78, when I left Miami. I’ve been a Yankee fan forever. Win or Lose.
Hey that’s great to hear!!! At least I’m not suffering through this miserable season by myself. Got any opinions about this season ( remember, no foul language , LOL!! )? Do you post on any of the Phins blogs?
No phin blogs, If we can get a good game out of Beck and get a RB healthy we can beat the Jets. We’ve had so many injuries it’s unbelievable. We did play pretty good vs Pitt. in sloppy conditions. My only hope is not to go 0-16 that would be terrible.
Back to the Yanks, we’re all getting edgy waiting for something to happen, I hope it’s soon. We need a lefty in case Andy retires. I’m hoping he returns, We need his experience to help the new guys. Not unlike Clemens in 2007. They need someone to look up to.
Bring in santana, he is the best in the game over the last 4 seasons and he is only 29. He has a lot of great seasons ahead of him. If the Yanks were going to trade any of their “Big 3″ I would trade Kennedy. He is good but I think Hughes and Chamberlin have a lot of potential and will be dominant in MLB. Don’t trade Melky, he is good and is only going to get better. There minor league system is getting better so it won’t hurt them to trade a couple of prospects from Double A. So in closing trade for Santana.
Giambi and Mussina have about as much trade value as a condom with a hole in it.
That’s true but do we just keep them on the roster or release them?? My guess they’ll stay and prove us wrong. I hope!!
snelley,
The Twins would probably want an outfielder to replace Hunter as soon as possible which would mean the Yanks would have to trade Cabrera along with a pitcher. The Yanks don’t have any position players in the system who are close to being major league ready yet either so they will definitely have to trade Cabrera.
Unfortunately, if Pettitte retires, they will only have Mussina who the younger pitchers have to look up to.
Snelley
In a perfect world, the Twins would settle for Kennedy/Hughes and top prospects from our system, but, I hate to say it, we have to see our young Bernie Williams leave too. The Twinkies have a hole to fill in CF and would prefer to have a high-ceiling, low cost, young player, and the Melkman fits the bill. Our trade package would have to be built around him and Kennedy/Hughes ( I hope it’s Kennedy. ) According to ESPN, the Yankees are the leading candidates to win the Santana sweepstakes, as the Yanks have offered one of the Big Three, Cabrera, and some very promising OF and Pitching prospects ( Horne? Tabata? Jackson? ) Now, it’s up to Bill Smith to say ” et’s get’r done.”
Oh yeah, Cano and Chamberlain are off limits, woooo!
In other news, the Yankees have offered Troy Percival their set-up role and some good money. Affeldt has been targeted as well.
See more at http://www.MLBTradeRumors.com
or go directly to the Yankees’ peice of it at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/new_york_yankees/index.html
I am reading all of these comments, and I want to know if some of you people are semi-retarded? I do not care where Johan Santana goes if it means trading Melky. Damon is on the downward side of his proverbal hill, and has a throwing arm made of bubble gum. Melky is the next Bernie Williams; homegrown talent in the outfield that consistantly performs, always resigns, and never wants to play anywhere but New York. Besides, he is Cano’s best friend on the team. Why would anyone even consider involving a consistant, every day player in a trade for a guy that will at best, play in 30 games next year? Throw them Ian Kennedy, a few minor league prospects like De Salvo and Wright, throw in Igawa, Pavano, and either Farnsworth or Visciano, and give them Jelly armed Damon to fill the gap in CF until they can land an Aaron Rowand or someone of the like to replace the overrated Torii (Hate it that he spells his first name with 2 I’s) Hunter.
All of this talk is moot now with the Twins signing a CF’er.
Yeah right!!! Like any team ( especially Minnesota ) would go for a deal that would involve Ian Kennedy with a bunch of average prospects like DeSalvo or Wright or Igawa or even Pavano or Farnsworth. LOL!! That would not only be the deal of the century, but the steal of the century for that garbage. That would be absolutely insane. Yes, including Cabrera in any deal that would involve getting Santana would be great. You have to be willing to give something in order to get something.
Still doubt the deal will happen though.
I see a lot of benefits to trading for Santana. The first reason is very simple, when was the last time the Yankees had a real number 1 on there staff in the last 5 years. I understand that it is going to take Melky and Ian Kennedy,plus at least 1 more(Eric Duncan). I just really think the best move is not trade for Santana, but redirect to acquiring Haren. I think the fit for the club is better and will take less to get done. I would love to see Santana in pinstripes, but the price maybe just a little to steep.
So the Redsox have stepped and raised the price for Santana. Perfect this is exactly the same way we ended with A-Rod. I am truly sorry that Melky will gone this year. I just do not see him being as good as or better than Bernie as some has said. I think the best move is to include Melky in every trade and sign Rowland. It also makes more sense to go after Haren anyway. So Hank you raise the price on the Redsox and get Haren for the price that nobody expects.